Thirsty for 'Fourth Wing', are the Kardashians 'over', what else can Jason Statham do, countdown to the return of Bangtan, the future of streaming, and a White Lotus live chat!
I like dragons but Lainey described Fourth Wing to me and it sounds like Divergent and no amount of dragons is going to get me to read Divergent. (Lainey saying she liked the first Divergent is not beating the accusations.)
Honestly, if you like magic academies and love interests I’d suggest Naomi Novik’s Scholomance series or Babel by RF Kuang. Both are well written and thoughtfully plotted.
I read it and hated it. They were like 1,000 characters I could not keep track of all of them and all of their dragons and there was no fucking until like 75% through the book. No, thank you.
What Amy said. A Deadly Education (1st Scholomance book) is a great magical academy book and no one would mistake it for Divergent. Now I need to go find a copy of Babel.
I must have some sort of allergy to all these young adult fantasy/scifi books because I have no interest in any of them. They didn't exist in my formative reading years so Stephen King caught me when I was 10 instead.
I’m going to be 50 this year and still read YA occasionally. I also used to read Stephen King in middle school. I’d rather read a romance about young people than old people for some reason. Probably the lack of kids.
Same! As an adult, I cycle through King every 5 or so years, adding new ones I've never read. I'm stuck on Dark Tower IV for two years now, because I can't bear to see how Roland gets hurt. Interestingly I have not been able to get back on board with Anne Rice rereads (though her books are forever beloved to me).
For well written romantasy (or urban fantasy/romance) I’m gonna do a hard co-sign for the Hidden Legacy books by Ilona Andrews. I also quite enjoyed Sorcery and Small Magics (fyi it’s the first in a series and the next two books aren’t out yet).
I would love some healthy discussion here about Fourth Wing. First off, I will say that I think enjoying a book is the sole purpose of reading for pleasure. If you like a story, that’s valid and doesn’t need to be justified (obviously barring any racist or hateful literature).
With that…I found Fourth Wing unreadable. And I can fuck with a romantasy. I read ACOTAR and live-texted and meme shared with my best friend the whole time. But Fourth Wing…holy bad writing. Like, could not get into the story at all because every third sentence was so jarring in its construction.
I gave up halfway through, which is super rare for me! Anyone else feel this? Or disagree with me? Lean into my echo chamber here or convince me to give it another try lol.
how you described Fourth Wing is how i would describe ACOTAR so i guess are they the same book different cover? That said, Fourth Wing drops off with the next two books.
It’s badly written but made a ton of money. Great for the author but as a long time fantasy/sci-fi nerd it is annoying the genre readers - romance readers are annoyed by being recommended traditional (much less smutty) fantasy, and fantasy readers are annoyed by the sudden influx of hardcore smut in their nerdy book section.
For example - the goblin emperor or broken earth series are amazing and complex fantasy worlds with romance but are serious lit, not a HAE guaranteed. And I don’t want to read hardcore smut when I go to look for a new fantasy novel!
I'm with you Amy -- sometimes I want to mainline fantasy or sci-fi , other times I'm ok with some smutty contamination. And other times, I just want genre smut sans any semblance of logic, plot or editing. I think the key is to know what you're looking for, and for books to be marketed/labeled as such!! I was not about the seggsytime in 4th wing, it was both unexpected and unwanted lol.
Ooh love the recommendations! I much prefer traditional fantasy over “fantasy” served as random plot to get to the sex parts. Those two series are getting added to my list!
*sigh* I will try it - can't promise I'll get through it. I'm going through a cozy/light phase - lots of rereads of Hands of the Emperor/MurderBot/Long Way to a Small Angry Planet/House in the Cerulean Sea. If you read sci-fi, try The Mimicking of Known Successes by Malka Older.
I’m the opposite, because I can’t stand ACOTAR, think it’s trash writing and Feyre is Bella Cullen part 2. I don’t really fuck with romantasy but a lot of my friends and coworkers do, and I power my way through. I am reading the Throne of Glass series and while it’s bad writing I am enjoying it more somehow. Anyway. I was into Fourth Wing. Though it’s definitely diminishing returns for the series - Iron Flame was Violet doing her best Harry Potter in the Order of the Phoenix impression, and the author needed an editor big time for Onyx Storm. But I’m into the dragons, the connections the humans have with the dragons, and a lot of the secondary characters are awesome. Team Ridoc!
Iron Flame was rough. Onyx Storm was tolerable because Iron was such a challenge. Like you, I love the dragon characters and at this point I just want the answers, if someone could give them to me in point form, how things tie up, I'm good to just re-read the first book because there are several parts that I enjoy. Like when Violet first strikes and Tairn roars in approval.
And in Onyx Storm I was hella annoyed by one main character being a fucking pansy. But I tend to be a completist so…I’ll finish it. My gym book club as a whole (the peeps who introduced me to romantasy) are all fucking pissed (me included) about having to wait for the next two books. Like, if you’re going to make us wait, don’t drop a massive cliffhanger!
I feel like someone on this thread can offer me sympathy and congratulations for powering through the entire Zodiac Academy series. Tho to be fair books 1-4 were fun.
I liked Fourth Wing but I read a lot of fantasy, like tons of Kindle unlimited fantasy series (I’ve also read the Wings of Fire YA book series about dragons which I would put forth as superior writing just obviously no smut), so it was on par with a lot of what I read there and I can push past some issues if I’m into the story enough but the sequel was less interesting to get past the writing for me. I am not sorry to have quit the series.
I'm reading Fourth Wing right now and read A Court of Thorns and Roses right before starting this. Honestly, I am enjoying/enjoyed both of them. The writing isn't anywhere near so horrible as Twilight, which is my bottom dwelling example. Twilight was HORRIBLE. And as a lover of urban fantasy as a genre, a sparkling vampire???? So weak. These days I just want something fun to keep my mind off of the shit going on in the world. If I want to weep at incredible writing, there's always Milan Kundera. His writing? Breathtaking with tears just from how beautiful his sentences are. Anyway, as long as it isn't Stephanie Meyer levels of awful, I can overlook some problems and just enjoy it. 😁
OMG, right? Twilight was a total hate read for me. I don’t know why I finished it after hating the first book. I’m finding these to be easier to get through and for the most part, people are adults. Except ACOTAR. Wasn’t thrilled by the age difference and the “mating” thing.
Age differences in fantasy novels isn't as big a deal for me as long as neither character is a literal child. There’s almost always immortal beings so they're bound to be ancient. Unlike Jacob imprinting on a BABY! Stephanie Meyer, smh. AWFUL!
I know nothing about Fourth Wing or Josh Heuston, but I am fascinated by our collective cultural inconsistency on when we find wanting/thirst charming and when we don’t. It’s dreamy when Travis Kelce openly adores Taylor Swift but cringe when Tom Hiddleston did it. We mock Jeremy Strong’s desire for an Oscar but cheer on Demi Moore. We applaud Amanda Seyfried’s late night audition to play Joni Mitchell, but roll our eyes at Ariana Grande’s open campaign to play Glinda. What does make us recoil from some people’s obvious trying and embrace other people’s? I guess the obvious answer is these are all very different celebrity personas, but I’d still love to hear theories!
Lainey - I, too, have made some terrible pop culture judgements. When Lady Gaga had just emerged, I thought she was a flash in the pan. Shame! (Imagine me saying this in a low whisper with notes of humiliation and regret . .I was on team Justin Guarini)
Love me some dragon books. Love me some smutty books! Love me some magical education books!! Will fx with combos. Hated hated hated onyx storm - terribly written. Turned into an absolute hate read. Other Dragonlore below, and am loving all the suggestions above! Maybe we start an LG book squawk?
Dragon politics: Naomi novic, His Majesty's Dragons (at times dry/boring)
OG Dragonlore: Anne McCafffrey
Dragons + general fantasy & sci-fi: Lindsay Buroker
Sigh…I wish you were wrong about the Kardashians @Lainey, but I fear you’re right. And the next generation in that family is already prepping to take the spotlight I guess what with North releasing music…
Fourth Wing was okay for the characters, but by the end, I was irritated by the repetitive writing. I read the next two books to close the open loop and cursed myself and the author the entire time. The writing was so bad and plot was terrible. Why was there zero character development?!? Couldn’t make it through ACOTAR either due to the main characters. Just, no. Just not my type of books, but if these are someone else’s yum, I say go for it!
I loved Fourth Wing but didn’t love the second book in the series and not sure if I will bother with the rest until the series is complete and I see the reviews. I also loved Divergent. I re-read that book many times waiting for the sequel but didn’t continue with the series because of the reviews. I’ll recommend Metal Slinger by Rachel Schneider for the best romantasy I’ve read this year but book 2 is not out until June. I basically love the tension of a slow burn romance. I’ll also recommend anything by Ilona Andrews for fantasy with a side of romance.
Does anyone still read the Bone Season series? This website got me hooked on it way back in 2013 and the most recent book just came out. The author was a "First Book Bitch." It turns out she re-wrote the whole series recently. She wrote the first book when she was 19 and didn't feel her writing was as strong so she revisited them and released them as "Author's Preferred Text."
That’s so interesting! I remember this book. The premise was good but something just didn’t click for me with the writing and I never continued to any of the sequels. If you’ve read the new version I’m curious to hear what you think!
The tone of the writing totally shifted. She revised the early books to fit her current style. She tightened up some story elements for consistency, filled out other characters (in a good way), and changed some of the romantic elements. She mentioned in an interview that what she felt was sexy and romantic at 19 has evolved and changed the story to reflect that. She also wrote an incredibly well received queer high fantasy romance book a few years ago. I think that experience is also reflected in the revisions. Is it fun and interesting world building? Yes, but it still YA-focused and, like most books, sometimes the writing is great and sometimes it is cringe.
Y'all in here talking about reading books you know are bad. Life is short love yourself!
I like dragons but Lainey described Fourth Wing to me and it sounds like Divergent and no amount of dragons is going to get me to read Divergent. (Lainey saying she liked the first Divergent is not beating the accusations.)
Honestly, if you like magic academies and love interests I’d suggest Naomi Novik’s Scholomance series or Babel by RF Kuang. Both are well written and thoughtfully plotted.
I read it and hated it. They were like 1,000 characters I could not keep track of all of them and all of their dragons and there was no fucking until like 75% through the book. No, thank you.
What Amy said. A Deadly Education (1st Scholomance book) is a great magical academy book and no one would mistake it for Divergent. Now I need to go find a copy of Babel.
I think Fourth Wing series is way better than Divergent.
I must have some sort of allergy to all these young adult fantasy/scifi books because I have no interest in any of them. They didn't exist in my formative reading years so Stephen King caught me when I was 10 instead.
I’m going to be 50 this year and still read YA occasionally. I also used to read Stephen King in middle school. I’d rather read a romance about young people than old people for some reason. Probably the lack of kids.
Same! As an adult, I cycle through King every 5 or so years, adding new ones I've never read. I'm stuck on Dark Tower IV for two years now, because I can't bear to see how Roland gets hurt. Interestingly I have not been able to get back on board with Anne Rice rereads (though her books are forever beloved to me).
It is so much better than divergent!!! Give it a tryyy
For well written romantasy (or urban fantasy/romance) I’m gonna do a hard co-sign for the Hidden Legacy books by Ilona Andrews. I also quite enjoyed Sorcery and Small Magics (fyi it’s the first in a series and the next two books aren’t out yet).
Based on your comment, I borrowed Burn for Me by Ilona Andrews, and it's FANTASTIC, thanks for the rec!
!!! Glad to hear it!
It pains me to have read this post about the Kardashians.
I would love some healthy discussion here about Fourth Wing. First off, I will say that I think enjoying a book is the sole purpose of reading for pleasure. If you like a story, that’s valid and doesn’t need to be justified (obviously barring any racist or hateful literature).
With that…I found Fourth Wing unreadable. And I can fuck with a romantasy. I read ACOTAR and live-texted and meme shared with my best friend the whole time. But Fourth Wing…holy bad writing. Like, could not get into the story at all because every third sentence was so jarring in its construction.
I gave up halfway through, which is super rare for me! Anyone else feel this? Or disagree with me? Lean into my echo chamber here or convince me to give it another try lol.
how you described Fourth Wing is how i would describe ACOTAR so i guess are they the same book different cover? That said, Fourth Wing drops off with the next two books.
It’s badly written but made a ton of money. Great for the author but as a long time fantasy/sci-fi nerd it is annoying the genre readers - romance readers are annoyed by being recommended traditional (much less smutty) fantasy, and fantasy readers are annoyed by the sudden influx of hardcore smut in their nerdy book section.
For example - the goblin emperor or broken earth series are amazing and complex fantasy worlds with romance but are serious lit, not a HAE guaranteed. And I don’t want to read hardcore smut when I go to look for a new fantasy novel!
I'm with you Amy -- sometimes I want to mainline fantasy or sci-fi , other times I'm ok with some smutty contamination. And other times, I just want genre smut sans any semblance of logic, plot or editing. I think the key is to know what you're looking for, and for books to be marketed/labeled as such!! I was not about the seggsytime in 4th wing, it was both unexpected and unwanted lol.
Ooh love the recommendations! I much prefer traditional fantasy over “fantasy” served as random plot to get to the sex parts. Those two series are getting added to my list!
I love The Goblin Emperor. So cozy and oddly low stakes despite the obviously high stakes circumstances.
I’m saving the new book for this weekend!!
And I got Babel (ebook, no hold!) from the library, so that's my weekend 😊
Fair warning, it is very good but emotionally intense!
*sigh* I will try it - can't promise I'll get through it. I'm going through a cozy/light phase - lots of rereads of Hands of the Emperor/MurderBot/Long Way to a Small Angry Planet/House in the Cerulean Sea. If you read sci-fi, try The Mimicking of Known Successes by Malka Older.
I’m the opposite, because I can’t stand ACOTAR, think it’s trash writing and Feyre is Bella Cullen part 2. I don’t really fuck with romantasy but a lot of my friends and coworkers do, and I power my way through. I am reading the Throne of Glass series and while it’s bad writing I am enjoying it more somehow. Anyway. I was into Fourth Wing. Though it’s definitely diminishing returns for the series - Iron Flame was Violet doing her best Harry Potter in the Order of the Phoenix impression, and the author needed an editor big time for Onyx Storm. But I’m into the dragons, the connections the humans have with the dragons, and a lot of the secondary characters are awesome. Team Ridoc!
Iron Flame was rough. Onyx Storm was tolerable because Iron was such a challenge. Like you, I love the dragon characters and at this point I just want the answers, if someone could give them to me in point form, how things tie up, I'm good to just re-read the first book because there are several parts that I enjoy. Like when Violet first strikes and Tairn roars in approval.
I enjoyed the other POVs at the end of Onyx Storm because we got to hear other dragons, and I love how crotchety and unimpressed they all are.
Teen Andarna was the best part of Iron Flame
Iron Flame was so hard to follow!
And in Onyx Storm I was hella annoyed by one main character being a fucking pansy. But I tend to be a completist so…I’ll finish it. My gym book club as a whole (the peeps who introduced me to romantasy) are all fucking pissed (me included) about having to wait for the next two books. Like, if you’re going to make us wait, don’t drop a massive cliffhanger!
I feel like someone on this thread can offer me sympathy and congratulations for powering through the entire Zodiac Academy series. Tho to be fair books 1-4 were fun.
I got through to the end of Fourth Wing, but didn't bother to go any further. I bounced HARD off of ACOTAR though.
To be fair ACOTAR was definitely a hate read for me 😂. But one I could actually get through, unlike Fourth Wing.
🤣 I found ACOTAR to be a little better. But they all blend together to be honest.
I liked Fourth Wing but I read a lot of fantasy, like tons of Kindle unlimited fantasy series (I’ve also read the Wings of Fire YA book series about dragons which I would put forth as superior writing just obviously no smut), so it was on par with a lot of what I read there and I can push past some issues if I’m into the story enough but the sequel was less interesting to get past the writing for me. I am not sorry to have quit the series.
I'm reading Fourth Wing right now and read A Court of Thorns and Roses right before starting this. Honestly, I am enjoying/enjoyed both of them. The writing isn't anywhere near so horrible as Twilight, which is my bottom dwelling example. Twilight was HORRIBLE. And as a lover of urban fantasy as a genre, a sparkling vampire???? So weak. These days I just want something fun to keep my mind off of the shit going on in the world. If I want to weep at incredible writing, there's always Milan Kundera. His writing? Breathtaking with tears just from how beautiful his sentences are. Anyway, as long as it isn't Stephanie Meyer levels of awful, I can overlook some problems and just enjoy it. 😁
OMG, right? Twilight was a total hate read for me. I don’t know why I finished it after hating the first book. I’m finding these to be easier to get through and for the most part, people are adults. Except ACOTAR. Wasn’t thrilled by the age difference and the “mating” thing.
Age differences in fantasy novels isn't as big a deal for me as long as neither character is a literal child. There’s almost always immortal beings so they're bound to be ancient. Unlike Jacob imprinting on a BABY! Stephanie Meyer, smh. AWFUL!
I know nothing about Fourth Wing or Josh Heuston, but I am fascinated by our collective cultural inconsistency on when we find wanting/thirst charming and when we don’t. It’s dreamy when Travis Kelce openly adores Taylor Swift but cringe when Tom Hiddleston did it. We mock Jeremy Strong’s desire for an Oscar but cheer on Demi Moore. We applaud Amanda Seyfried’s late night audition to play Joni Mitchell, but roll our eyes at Ariana Grande’s open campaign to play Glinda. What does make us recoil from some people’s obvious trying and embrace other people’s? I guess the obvious answer is these are all very different celebrity personas, but I’d still love to hear theories!
Tom Hiddleston, Jeremy Strong, Ariana Grande, uniting factor: theater kid energy.
It's not the thirst. It's not the try. It's the theater kid.
Lainey - I, too, have made some terrible pop culture judgements. When Lady Gaga had just emerged, I thought she was a flash in the pan. Shame! (Imagine me saying this in a low whisper with notes of humiliation and regret . .I was on team Justin Guarini)
Love me some dragon books. Love me some smutty books! Love me some magical education books!! Will fx with combos. Hated hated hated onyx storm - terribly written. Turned into an absolute hate read. Other Dragonlore below, and am loving all the suggestions above! Maybe we start an LG book squawk?
Dragon politics: Naomi novic, His Majesty's Dragons (at times dry/boring)
OG Dragonlore: Anne McCafffrey
Dragons + general fantasy & sci-fi: Lindsay Buroker
Fun fantasy: T Kingfisher
Magical education: Naomi Novic Scholomance (tho El's whinging gets annoying at times)
Smutty dragons: Abigail Owen
I loved The Dragonriders of Pern so much. The White Dragon especially.
No dragons or magical education but I really liked Kim Harrison’s The Hollows series for urban fantasy. At least through the original 13 books.
Oh, and a really fun series is The Honey Badger Chronicles.
Sigh…I wish you were wrong about the Kardashians @Lainey, but I fear you’re right. And the next generation in that family is already prepping to take the spotlight I guess what with North releasing music…
Fourth Wing was okay for the characters, but by the end, I was irritated by the repetitive writing. I read the next two books to close the open loop and cursed myself and the author the entire time. The writing was so bad and plot was terrible. Why was there zero character development?!? Couldn’t make it through ACOTAR either due to the main characters. Just, no. Just not my type of books, but if these are someone else’s yum, I say go for it!
Yes! How many times do her eyebrows have to hit her hairline? 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I loved Fourth Wing but didn’t love the second book in the series and not sure if I will bother with the rest until the series is complete and I see the reviews. I also loved Divergent. I re-read that book many times waiting for the sequel but didn’t continue with the series because of the reviews. I’ll recommend Metal Slinger by Rachel Schneider for the best romantasy I’ve read this year but book 2 is not out until June. I basically love the tension of a slow burn romance. I’ll also recommend anything by Ilona Andrews for fantasy with a side of romance.
Ilona Andrews hidden legacy series is the answer to ‘I want to read interesting and well written smutty fantasy’
Co-sign
On it. Thanks for the suggestion - I just finished The Bridge Kingdom series...🤠
Does anyone still read the Bone Season series? This website got me hooked on it way back in 2013 and the most recent book just came out. The author was a "First Book Bitch." It turns out she re-wrote the whole series recently. She wrote the first book when she was 19 and didn't feel her writing was as strong so she revisited them and released them as "Author's Preferred Text."
That’s so interesting! I remember this book. The premise was good but something just didn’t click for me with the writing and I never continued to any of the sequels. If you’ve read the new version I’m curious to hear what you think!
The tone of the writing totally shifted. She revised the early books to fit her current style. She tightened up some story elements for consistency, filled out other characters (in a good way), and changed some of the romantic elements. She mentioned in an interview that what she felt was sexy and romantic at 19 has evolved and changed the story to reflect that. She also wrote an incredibly well received queer high fantasy romance book a few years ago. I think that experience is also reflected in the revisions. Is it fun and interesting world building? Yes, but it still YA-focused and, like most books, sometimes the writing is great and sometimes it is cringe.