Mailbag for August 16, 2024
Madonna is no dummy about money, dumping on Blake Lively while Joaquin Phoenix skates, media (il)literacy, Emma Thynn's interesting family, Taylor Swift's silence, and Katy Perry advice
Dear Squawkers,
Today is Madonna’s birthday, she’s 66 years old. Her Madgesty has been enjoying her birthday gift – and I’m not talking about her new boyfriend, Akeem Morris. I’m talking about her work and specifically one of her most iconic songs (she has so fucking many) soaring up the charts 35 years after its release: “Like A Prayer”.
The reason? Deadpool & Wolverine. Even if you haven’t seen the movie, you’ve probably heard that she allowed them to use it and, according to Ryan Reynolds, strongly suggested how they should incorporate it to best effect. And she was right. The scene works great with that song, that legendary fucking song, that she’s now making even more money from… because Madonna is no dummy about money. Before Taylor Swift there was Madonna who, relatively early on in her career, figured out how to make deals that worked for her – in the context of those times.
All these decades later she’s made another deal that works for her. Marvel has released two new versions of “Like A Prayer” with a new EP that includes the original, “The Choir Version” (extra choir, basically), and “Battle Royale”. So this year we did get a movie with Madonna music in it… just not HER movie. Her movie, by her and about her, was paused when she was focusing on her tour last year. But she’s recently indicated that she’s working on it again, that it will be titled Who’s That Girl, naturally, and Julia Garner is reportedly still on board to star. And I wonder whether or not the resurgence of “Like A Prayer” will be a boost for the project. At the very least, Warner Music, with whom she signed an extensive deal in 2021, would love what the movie could do to monetise the catalogue – and that was part of her goal with the film in the first place as she told Variety in 2022 that:
“I’m just looking for interesting, fun ways to rerelease my catalog and introduce my music to a new generation.”
Important to note here that the deal she has with Warner Music is a partnership and she has extensive control over the catalogue, made clear in that same interview when she talked about never selling it the way so many artists have over the last few years. When asked why, she responded:
“Because they’re my songs. Ownership is everything isn’t it?”
It’s not like she doesn’t already has a lot of money anyway. And she just got some Marvel money.
Back to her movie, though, I mean she’s probably not working on it today, but I hope she can get the script in shape soon so that they can start shooting. A whole movie of her songs, come on. There’s an entire generation of us who’ll be there on opening night, and then every night after. Happy Birthday to the Queen of Pop!
Now to the mailbag…
Question from Patricia (from one of the daily chats):
Do we have any idea why Joaquin left? I keep thinking about all the people complaining and dragging Michael Strahan for disappearing from GMA last year but, ultimately, it was because he was caring for his daughter that had been diagnosed with cancer. I really hope it wasn't something terrible that made him leave the set.
Lainey’s Answer:
Patricia asked this question early on in the week, after Sarah posted about it on Monday. Since then… nobody has been talking about it. Joaquin Phoenix should send Blake Lively a vegan gift basket, seriously, because everybody was too busy hating on her to care about the fact that Joaquin cancelled on his own fucking movie days before filming, leaving many people out of work and money. As Sarah and I both predicted? He’s going to be fine!
Like, sorry to sound preachy but there’s been SO MUCH ENERGY spent on dragging Blake Lively who, yes, of course, should be criticised for her shitty choices on this press tour but I’m talking here about proportion. The entire internet has decided she’s the villain of the month… and in the court of public opinion, Joaquin Phoenix just … skates. Show me the TikToks about him!
To go back to Patricia’s question and why JP quit a film that he pitched in the first place, by all accounts, it certainly doesn’t seem like it’s a family situation like the one Michael Strahan was dealing with. Sure, it’s possible, but hopefully it’s not – because I think we can all agree that if it’s between those two reasons (he got “cold feet” on the queer storyline, that he came up with, or something terrible is happening in his family), him being a selfish asshole is the preferred option, right?
Still, the way it was reported, by all the trades, with industry insider connection, was all about JP’s professionalism, or lack thereof. It would be really fucking weird if they had sources close to production feeding them this information if it turns out that it’s to do with a family member.
Right now, though, Joaquin is still expected to be in Venice for the world premiere of Joker: Folie à Deux. He won an Oscar for this role the first time around. Joker is the highest grossing R-rated film of all time (Deadpool & Wolverine is closing in, though), and Warner Bros wants to see the same cash money results. If he shows up, and he kinda has to show up (his character is in the title of the goddamn movie), then can everybody trash him on TikTok? Or is that reserved for women only?
Speaking of… there have been a lot of Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni questions so let’s go there next.
Question from JPH:
A version was in the thread but: why do we know Justin Baldoni hired crisis PR? Why wouldn’t they sign NDAs and keep quiet he was working with professionals? Who wants this to be publicized? I see the PR firm benefiting from the exposure, but it’s at Justin’s expense because what a bad look to hire this particular firm.
Lainey’s Answer:
It might be as simple as this: right now, the media is basically spamming Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively. Their reps are getting inundated with “care to comment?” inquiries multiple times a day by mainstream media, all media. I don’t have to confirm this, I know it. You can’t be embroiled in a situation like this and expect the media to leave you alone and not keep asking questions. His regular publicist would be overwhelmed by it. And his regular publicist is not specifically focused on crisis PR and has other clients. I imagine, then, that those calls and requests are being redirected to the crisis PR team.
Question from Maggie:
Lainey, as someone with a lot of experience doing these junkets, what are your thoughts on the journalist, Kjersti Flaa, who chose to release the clip of her interview of Blake Lively at this particular moment?
Lainey’s Answer:
I would love one day to release the raw footage of Jake Gyllenhaal humiliating me on the red carpet at TIFF, lol. That’s the petty side of me, which is strong. Petty is basically like the Force for me. Or, I guess, the Dark Side of the Force. I’m still not sure if it would be a good move, a strategic move. Because, right now, what’s the point? Eventually I’ll find a way to repurpose it, but I need a reason, a reason that serves me, that advances a bigger goal.
So, with respect to Kjersti Flaa and her interview with Blake Lively that’s gone super viral, adding to the giant dump that the internet is taking on Blake’s face, I can totally relate to the resentment she’s been harbouring towards Blake all these years, because that’s how I feel about Jake Gyllenhaal. And then this happened with the It Ends With Us press tour and everybody coming for Blake’s ass, and Kjersti might have like, muah haha, here’s my chance, you bitch, I’m about to pour some karma down your throat.
But now some people have dug up some fawning remarks that Kjersti made a couple of years ago about Johnny Depp after she interviewed him, and since Justin is working with the crisis PR team that also worked on Johnny Depp’s case, which involved a targeted online campaign against Amber Heard, and there is such a targeted online campaign right now against Blake, there are questions coming up about whether or not there’s a connection here. Coincidence or conspiracy? I’m honestly just asking, I don’t know either way. But every day it’s a new layer of mess and confusion.
Question from Betts:
The IEWU saga is filled with bad, click bait stories at this point that people are seemingly taking at face value regardless of source or plausibility. Would you all share some of your tips for how you read other gossip stories and discern the worthwhile from the trash? Seems like an ideal moment for some critical media literacy. ❤️
Lainey’s Answer:
I really appreciate this question because I hope you’ve seen that my coverage this week has been about trying to make sure all angles are represented and understanding how information is revealed in the first place. I was frustrated when I was writing this post from Thursday about that fat shaming report from TMZ because almost everyone took it to be a leak from Blake. And based on all my years of experience in gossip, that to me was definitely NOT a Blake leak. It couldn’t have been because it was too detailed about what JUSTIN’s position was – all his back issues and who he spoke to and what he was trying to do. But 99% of the internet read into it as Blake trying to play sympathy which speaks to media illiteracy.
We could spend every day for the next month on media literacy and how to improve it, so in the interest of keeping this as brief as possible (because these mailbags are often 3000+ words and … are they too long, LOL?), I’ll just focus on timelines.
You’ll recall, I wrote about the timeline on Wednesday in this post when I analysed the news that Justin Baldoni had brought in crisis management. That broke around 8pm on Tuesday. A few hours later, TMZ published a post about the Blake and Justin beef with sourcing from Justin’s supporters. The next day they followed up with the fat shaming story. Laying it out that way, I think, gives us a better picture of the rollout behind the scenes.
But I put together that timeline because I use both social media and old-fashioned web browsing, which is increasingly becoming an archaic way of living. People don’t visit websites anymore – or they’re doing it less and less. (Which is why Jacek and I are so shameless in asking you to continue to visit our website, LaineyGossip.com because social media is eating up traffic, ha. I don’t know why I’m laughing, it’s really not funny, it’s scary.) People get their news, more and more, from social media. And what we get served on socials, as you know, is algorithmic. It’s not chronological, feeds are based on popularity and what’s being shared more. In this case, even if people are sharing links on socials, they’re coming at random times, in no particular order. Someone on social media, for example, might see Blake’s old interview with Kjersti Flaa before they find out that Justin’s working with the crisis PR that also worked with Johnny Depp, if they even get to the crisis PR part. Right now, because the Blake hate is so intense, all those hate posts have risen to the top. Modern brains have been rewired by social media; if you like something, you’re only going to see more of it. It’s the ultimate, hyper-accelerated iteration of confirmation bias we have ever seen in existence.
So my answer? It’s boring and unrealistic and probably overly simple: kick it old school. Or old new school. Go to the websites, look at the timestamps, follow the chronology of events and not just the TikTok timeline.
Can I share something that made me crazy this week? It was Monday, right after the Olympics, and Rachel Gunn, aka Raygun, the “break dancer”, was being talked about on the radio. The hosts were clowning on her, but then arrived at the point about breaking dancing not being a part of the Los Angeles 2028 Olympic Games … because of HER. This is NOT true. LA had already decided not to include breaking (bad decision IMO) two years ago (!!!) which obviously has nothing to do with Raygun. But this is what a lot of people believe because they’re only reading tweets or watching TikToks and then passing it on and then relaying that shit on the radio and then their friends and it’s an unstoppable cycle of bad information.
Then there’s the “good” information, which still needs to be considered for motivation. I mentioned Matthew Belloni’s Puck the other day in my long ass post about the Blake and Justin chaos. Matthew kinda dismissed the beef, which was a bit annoying, but he did make a good point about how it’s overshadowed how a film targeted to a female audience has performed. And in yesterday’s newsletter, Blake came up again…but not about the feud.
They did a report on Blake Brown, Blake’s haircare line, written by Rachel Strugatz, an experienced beauty editor who has worked for Business of Fashion and WWD. This is the subtitle:
“Blake Lively is having a moment, and now she’s got a haircare line to prove it. Is the early success of Blake Brown the result of her goofy authenticity, a genius marketing instinct, or both?”
And one of the biggest details in the piece:
“But a source close to Target told me that the brand had over $1 million in sales in its first week, which is impressive given the products’ modest price tag. “When Target gets behind something like this, it’s going to work in the beginning no matter what because of the placement they give it,” this person said. “Target is pushing it at the highest level, so it’s going to come out of the gate hot. But will it sustain?”
It’s a largely flattering piece of Blake’s overall brand appeal that seems to contradict what social media has been saying over the last week. The article refers to her as the “original influencer” which… is a stretch. There is a tiny bit of snark but it ends up being a compliment in the final paragraph which reads:
“…the most interesting thing about Lively is that no one knows anything about her. Usually, at least one person has worked with the celebrity or influencer in question (or knows someone who has) and can give context, background, dish, whatever. Apart from the designer belt I heard she never returned, Lively is a black box. It’s impressive. “She was never known for her acting, but she became uber-famous and everyone wanted to be her and brands wanted to dress her,” a top beauty marketer said of Lively, who is, in some ways, an original influencer. “People go in a frenzy every time she has a project.”
The people who are posting anti-Blake content on TikTok are not Puck’s audience. Puck is subscription based – and TikTok users don’t like paying for things. Puck is also targeted to industry professionals, studio executives, producers, etc. They’re the ones reading about Blake’s double “successes”: the movie is doing well at the box office and her haircare line is selling. Will the second week sales be as good as the first though? Will all this negativity on socials have an impact on Blake Brown? Will we get a report on that next week at Puck?
That’s how I’ll end this answer on media literacy – it’s also about follow-through. The general gossip consumer usually gets a story either at the beginning or the middle but doesn’t stick around for the end. For example, the Daily Mail or Life & Style will make up a story about two people breaking up. It’ll get shared everywhere. Turns out there’s no breakup. But a lot of people don’t know about the correction and two months later when they see the couple together, they’ll be like, oh didn’t they break up? Media literacy, then, is also about getting the initial news, and the last bit of news too.
Question from Kathryn L-B:
A bit off topic but: What do we know about Emma Thynn, the Marchioness of Bath? Her bio and aesthetic fascinate me. I see on IG that Gabby Union is palling around with her. Someone in Substack awhile ago said that she has started cultivating a group of Black Hollywood celebrities and now I’m intrigued and dyyyying to know what they all talk about. So, wondering if you hear anything!
Sarah’s answer:
The Most Honorable The Marchioness of Bath, Emma Thynn, nee Emma McQuiston, known professionally as Emma Weymouth! This shit is outdated and irrelevant to the 21st century but raise a glass to one of my favorite socialites!
If you’re not aware, Emma Thynn is a British socialite, the bi-racial daughter of a Nigerian oil billionaire and a British socialite, Suzanna McQuiston. In 2020, when her husband, Ceawlin Thynn, then Viscount of Weymouth, inherited the Marquessate of Bath, Emma became the first Black marchioness in British history (that’s right under duchess, and is the same title Rose Hanbury holds, though Emma outranks her because the Bath title is older than the Cholmondeley title, I LOVE how petty these people get about order of precedence).
When Harry and Meghan first became engaged, I hoped Meghan would seek out Emma, then Lady Weymouth, who could tell her all about what it’s like to be Black in the British aristocracy. Emma’s relationship with her in-laws was famously fraught, the old Marquess of Bath didn’t attend her wedding with Ceawlin (besides Ceawlin marrying a Black woman, there was also a dispute over the estate’s art collection). Emma and Ceawlin face/d a lot of the same bigotry, racism, and “what about the bloodlines?!” nonsense that Harry and Meghan face/d. They never did become friends, though, which is too bad for gossip, but like Meghan, Emma found her own path and is, as far as anyone can tell, thriving as Lady Bath. She created Emma’s Kitchen at the Thynn family pile, Longleat, she’s a contributor to British Vogue (as Emma Weymouth), she’s modeled for various fashion houses, and she’s tight with Edward Enninful. She’s an interesting woman who’s led an interesting life at the cross-section of the 21st century and one of the mustiest institutions in the world, I assume her conversation is illuminating, to say the least.
But Emma Thynn is, racist in-laws aside, not the Thynn to gossip about. That would be the late Alexander Thynn, 7th Marquess of Bath, Ceawlin’s dad. He was a polyamorous bohemian who kept many dozen “wifelets”, which was his word for mistress, whom he tended to tuck away in cottages on the Longleat estate. At the time of his death in 2020 (due to COVID), he stiffed his SEVENTY-FOUR wifelets in his will. And those are just the ones we know about!
In contrast, Emma and Ceawlin appear happily married a decade later, which is good for them, but bad for us gossips. Ceawlin seems determined to be the opposite of his, er, eccentric father.
Question from Barbara B:
One of the things I’d be curious to hear an opinion on is why Taylor Swift still hasn’t said anything about the cancelled shows in Vienna. I’m one of these unlucky ones who was supposed to go and I find this lack of acknowledgement very disappointing, to say the least. I’d imagine there are things happening in the background but cancelling shows doesn’t just happen for her. And for someone who claims to care about her fans … I don’t know, it doesn’t sit right with me. Like, put a 💔 emoji in a story or something but acknowledge it. Note: given what we know, I think the cancellation, despite being painful and annoying, was the right call to be made in light of the threat. I’m also not a super fan of hers but was excited about the cultural aspect of it. Thank you so much in advance 🙏💖
Lainey’s Answer:
There’s still an investigation happening. This was a terror threat, likely a complicated multi-national diplomatic situation involving multiple intelligence agencies, and my guess is that she’s been advised not to address it. There are many things to criticise about Taylor, but I don’t think it would be fair to say in this circumstance that she doesn’t care.
I understand your disappointment that you were supposed to go and that you’d prefer to have had some kind of connection with her since so many of you weren’t able to see her perform. Given what we know of Taylor, for sure she will reschedule, and she’ll make it extra, extra, extra special. But first, even though she already has it all and is one of the most culturally powerful people on the planet, she’s a human. And I have a lot of sympathy for her in this situation. Imagine the “what ifs” going on in her head?
We all “what if”, right? Sometimes our “what ifs” are innocuous. “What if” I didn’t sleep in this morning, I wouldn’t have been rushing to get to work and I wouldn’t have spilled my latte all over my shirt. Sometimes the “what ifs” are more unpleasant. Our dog Barney is 13 and has chronic ear infections. For years we’d clean them with solution, and we put him on antibiotics one time to clear it up and the vet didn’t seem too worried, but then it came back so we were like, he’s just a guy with funky ears. Now, though, he has significant hearing loss and we’ve only just in the last couple of months really investigated and it turns out he might be allergic and that’s why his ears are so bad, and now, every day in my mind I’m like “what if” we took his ears more seriously. He must have been in so much pain and he’s so stoic, we’ve let him down. There is nothing that will ever make me feel better about this.
So with Taylor… those “what ifs” must be playing in her mind all the time. And I’m sure they’re terrifying. “What if” the authorities hadn’t foiled the plot in time? “What if” there’s more? “What if, what if, what if…”
That’s so much pressure. An artist’s responsibility should be to put on a good show, entertain their audience, make sure they are appreciated. But now, with all this insanity happening in the world, an artist like Taylor has to think about… “what if people come to my show and die?” This is some dark shit. How many people can handle that? How many people can actually relate to the fact that she can handle it? How is she handling it? That’s none of my business but I would imagine it would be traumatic, even if in the end, thank God, nothing happened, just having to consider the possibility of it is traumatic. And she still has to keep getting up on stage night after night, for three hours. People, as we are learning more and more, process trauma differently.
Question from JenC:
If you were advising Katy Perry what to do next, what would you say?
Sarah’s answer:
Go back to American Idol. No, seriously, she’s committed to an album release, so there’s not much to be done right now except see it through. And also deal with an investigation in Spain about whether or not the production of her “Lifetimes” music video damaged ecologically significant sand dunes in the Balearic Islands. But hey, she’s going to receive the Michael Jackson Video Vanguard Award at the VMAs, and the irony of these two headlines does not escape me.
But if I could go back in time before Katy Perry committed to releasing a whole new album, I would tell her to actually listen to current pop music before she starts recording new tracks. Everything she’s releasing just sounds outdated. No wonder none of it is hitting, it sounds like something I’d hear in my dentist’s waiting room in 2012. Realistically, there’s nothing for it, she’ll just have to absorb the criticism and flops as they come—and hope at least one single breaks out—and then pretend like none of this happened later, like JLo. But fantastically, I would like to go back in time and have her listen to “Pink Pony Club” and tell her if she can’t make a song that at least makes sense within the same playlist as Chappell Roan, she should just stay on vacation.
I guess that’s what I would say. Stay on vacation.
Sending you off this week where we started, with a classic. “I hear you call my name, and it feels like… home”. The Squawk has become our home for amazing gossip discussions, we so appreciate your investment and support!
Keep squawking and keep gossiping,
Lainey and Sarah
This mailbag was written last night. And you'll note, in the answer about media literacy, I end on a note about following through on stories, even namechecking the Daily Mail. Then, today, the Daily Mail reports that Chris Martin and Dakota Johnson are over. Which is being shared online. It was mentioned at our etalk morning meeting today. But the follow through?
Her rep has come out to say they are "still happily together". Which means that they are not broken up, and yet...how many people will know about the follow through? Most people today will be walking around telling each other about the split. MEDIA LITERACY.
(because these mailbags are often 3000+ words and … are they too long, LOL?) nope!