Mailbag for June 28, 2024
Broken by Celine, on Kensington Palace's Kate guidance, celebrity podcasts worth a listen, Kylie Jenner and the cost of beauty, British actors and Hollywood, starting with K-Dramas, and more
Dear Gossips,
How are you, everyone OK? I Am: Celine Dion came out 72 hours ago and I dropped the ball on warning you that it broke me, and it would probably break you so… for those of you who’ve seen it… maybe we can support-group each other below in the comments of this mailbag. As for those who’ve been saving it for this weekend, now you know what you should expect – which is that the Queen of All Feelings will, true to form, show you all her feelings and pull all your feelings out of you until you’re a sobbing mess by the end of the film. That was me. I screened it at the premiere in New York and sobbed through the last 20 or so minutes and had to skip the reception that Amazon was hosting afterwards because I was too fucked up emotionally to be around people.
Also, I may have been a little angry about what we’re shown in the last 20 minutes? I get that she consents to it, and that Celine wouldn’t be Celine if she didn’t go all the way fucking there with the truth about her life as it’s been over the last few years, but it’s the way you feel about your loved ones and how you want to protect them; the way you would never let anyone see your best friend when she’s in the most pain; the way you would block the camera with your body if someone walked in on her in her worst condition. This was how I felt in those moments… that went on and on and on. I was increasingly mad at the filmmaker, the studio – and it’s not exactly rational, I understand and have come to accept the why of this decision and that it comes from Celine herself, but this is what happens when you’re allowed, through this artform, to get so close to someone. And Celine has allowed the audience to get SO CLOSE. And it feels like the only human response is to want to bodyguard her, you know?
Anyway, more about interviewing Celine in an upcoming newsletter when I can get my shit together and by that I mean get over COVID because two trips to New York in less than a week have resulted in yet another fucking positive because cases are spiking again, although this hasn’t been much reported? Everyone I know is sick or has been sick. Jacek had COVID three weeks ago after we were in Vancouver and then my ma had it a few days later and now it’s me, so consider this a public health announcement and protect yourselves.
Now onto your questions.
Question from Betts: What do we think about the latest update from Kensington Palace on Kate Middleton? How do we understand the PR team as having learned from the Kate Waldo debacle?
Lainey’s Answer:
This was posted in the mailbag a couple of weeks ago, around the time of Trooping, but we’ve had a few questions and comments in the daily chats about Kensington Palace’s communications strategy recently and it’s been a minute since we’ve talked royals so it’s a good time for an update.
A couple of days or so before Princess Kate attended Trooping the Colour, Kensington Palace sent a document out to the media with strict instructions that it was not to be shared with the public. This was the document that included the “Written Message from the Princess of Wales” and it is the same message that was posted to their Instagram account with a new photo on June 14:
Underneath that statement was a section on “background guidance” clarifying that Kate’s appearance at Trooping does not mean a return to full work schedule and that she may, here and there, pop into some events through the summer but that doesn’t mean she’s coming back full-time either. Under medical encouragement she’s also been doing a bit of light work from home. Every few sentences or so there was a reminder that those going through cancer treatment need space to heal and it was a caution to media outlets not to be too intrusive.
Below the “background guidance” section was a Q&A with Kensington Palace anticipating questions about Trooping like “Will she be in a carriage?” and “Will the Prince be on horseback?” and providing their answers. It was also very clearly marked which pieces of information could be quoted directly and attributed to palace spokespeople and which were on background for accuracy.
The document was six pages long, quite thorough, a bit lecture-y in tone, and overall, VERY well done. And this of course is noteworthy because…well… communications hasn’t exactly been a strength for Kensington Palace this year, or probably the year before. We don’t need to rehash their mistakes from a few months ago but this is my point – there’s been a noticeable improvement.
And you know what else I noticed? The format of this document was similar to a document that Buckingham Palace released ahead of King Charles’s return after he announced that he was taking some time off for his cancer treatment. That document also cannot be reproduced so I can’t show it to you but when I read it back in April, what stood out to me was the Q&A section provided by his team that covered many of the questions that the media and the public might have about his situation. The king’s comms strategy was really well handled during that time, in sharp contrast, and it seems, to me at least, that Kensington Palace may have learned something from the monarch. Which is how it should be, right? Finally.
For the last few years, and maybe always, the Crown has been an organisation made up of subsidiaries and we have seen that those subsidiaries have not often been all that collaborative. Sometimes they even undermine each other. But here’s an instance where, perhaps, they might be sharing best practices. It’s just one instance, I know, and it doesn’t mean that there’s not the potential for shit to get messy again but at least from a comms perspective, we’re not ramming our heads against the wall wondering why these people can’t get it together.
William taking George and Charlotte to the Taylor Swift concert was also a PR win. I mean, I think we all could have done without the sight of his dance-flailing but associating with one of the biggest popstars on the planet and having those photos shared around the world was undeniably a good look for the Waleses. I repeat, for the Waleses. Taylor Swift did not need the royals. Taylor Swift is her own empire, and hers is expanding and not contracting the way the Crown’s is. She has her own loyal subjects who already had so many moments from her three London shows to lose it over, it was almost like she was doing the royals a favour and not the other way around, which is how it’s been historically perceived – like a commoner would be so lucky to be graced by their presence. Definitely NOT the way it was reading with Taylor. And so, yes, a PR win…but with a major assist from a celebrity. So if we’re assessing the royal brand’s value right now, in this photo below, they’re not the ones with the most cultural power.
Question from CD: Do you listen to any of the celebrity-interview podcasts? If so, which ones do you like? Who are good interviewers, and who are not? Who have been some surprisingly good (or surprisingly bad) guests? I think Conan is a skilled interviewer: he's both well prepared and knowledgeable enough to be a good conversationalist about a wide range of topics. The Smartless guys are less skilled (plus, lack of preparation is part of their concept!), but when they already have chemistry with a guest, it can be a blast to listen in.
Sarah’s Answer:
I have said before, I cannot listen to Smartless, the guys are terrible interviewers. Sean Hayes on his own has potential—he puts time in and seems genuinely interested in other people. I’m not convinced Will Arnett or Jason Bateman are actually interested in anyone else. But yeah, Conan, who now hosts Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend, is great. His podcast benefits from 30 years of interviewing experience, with a bonus that he basically doesn’t have anyone on he isn’t predisposed to like. It helps when you don’t have to interview uninteresting people, or worse, people you actively dislike.
I don’t listen to any celebrity interview podcasts regularly, because it’s always dependent on the guest, but one show I check on and will listen to is Michael Rosenbaum’s Inside of You. He can get a little self-interested, but he focuses on discussions about mental health and recovery, so his interviews are usually pretty fertile ground, and he tends to interview, let’s call it, a lower tier of celebrity (I say “tends to” because sometimes he does have a legit A-lister on, like Keanu Reeves), which means you can hear from people who don’t get interviewed to death, which makes for a fresher listen.
I also like Seth Meyers’ new pod with his brother, Josh Meyers, called Family Trips. They interview people about family vacations, and Josh keeps them on track, so even when Seth wanders off topic, they always end up back at vacations. I have liked almost all of their episodes, I should probably just subscribe, but then they’ll have someone like Pamela Adlon on, and I am supremely uninterested in hearing from her.
I also check on comedian podcasts. There’s a tendency for them to turn into snakes eating their own tail as it feels like the top 30 comics just spend all their time going on each other’s podcasts, but I like Mike Birbiglia’s Working It Out, in which he talks to comedians about specific jokes that don’t quite work, and they try to figure out the joke. If you’re at all interested in comedy or joke writing, it’s worth a listen. And Pete Holmes’ You Made It Weird is solid. Pete is a decent interviewer—he’s a Conan protégé—and he goes LONG, which means his pods can get into, well, truly weird territory (he asks every guest if they’ve seen a ghost, the answers can get WILD). I only tune in when I’m interested in the guest, but I never regret the time spent.
Also, Julia Louis-Dreyfus’s Wiser Than Me is good, she only interviews older women, which highlights a distinct worldview from other podcasts, but again, it’s a case of “who is this guest this week”. And I’ve only heard two episodes of David Duchovny’s Fail Better, but he focuses on stories about failure, and when it comes to celebrity podcasts, I lean toward the ones that have a specific area of focus, as it allows for deeper dives and more interesting conversations. I am just not interested in listening to celebrities talk about themselves all the time, that’s what late-night shows are for.
Question from Patty:
Anyone have any thoughts on Kylie Jenner?
Lainey’s Answer:
Patty is referring here to Kylie Jenner crying in a recent episode of The Kardashians about all the shaming she gets over her appearance. Kayleigh Donaldson just wrote a thoughtful piece, as she always does, about “Kylie Jenner’s Face and the Hell She’s Made For Herself” over at Pajiba that pretty much covers it. What I want to talk about here is, well, the Kardashian and the LA Face effect on faces in general. I can’t stop thinking about it lately because of Love Island, LOL, sorry.
The girls on these shows, in both the US and the UK, all of them are under 30. Some of them are as young as 20 or 21. And none of them look it. Which I’m not here to judge. Because I actually find it fascinating, that these young women are CHOOSING makeup and face treatments that make them look OLDER than they are.
Because the default, usually, at least I thought so, was that women have always tried to look younger, not older, right? And now, because of the homogenisation of beauty in western culture, normalised by LA faces and the Kardashians and then influencers on social media, has made it so that so many women are going to their injectors and to the makeup counters asking to look the same… which, to my eye at least, is resulting in everyone looking between 35 and 40, no matter how old they are. If you’re 25 you look 35+. If you’re 60 you look 40. Everyone just looks 40! At least in North America.
Over in Asia, the magic number for my people is much lower. They would never, ever want to look 35 or 40. Drop a decade from that and it’s more like it. And the use of filters and other forms of tech fuckery is even more sophisticated over there. Sometimes I fall into a rabbit hole on TikTok where I just watch video after video of Asian influencers taping their faces and pulling shit out of their noses to reveal their real faces. This was such a kink for me last year, Jacek was so disgusted with me every time he got a glimpse of my phone. Here’s an example:
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By the way, it’s not just the women! Men do it too!
Sorry, I got derailed, and now I’ve lost my train of thought and I’m not sure I’m getting it back. I guess one of my points is that this is an issue in other cultures, and not just with the Kardashian-Jenners and the pop culture of the west. The bigger point is… well… it’s bigger than just the Kardashian-Jenners. In every culture there’s a standardisation of beauty and I’m not sure any of us is immune to it. I’m certainly not. But I also know we don’t WANT to be held hostage by those standards, and sometimes that frustration comes out in unproductive ways. Kayleigh Donaldson’s essay points out that Kylie Jenner is both a victim and a perpetrator of these beauty standards. That she has profited from it but that it has also cost her. But the cost to multiple generations of people might even be higher. And we haven’t even gotten to what A.I. is doing to our brains in terms of how we understand, evaluate, and reevaluate beauty.
Question from Leah: Also I'm curious about the logistics of British actors "breaking into" hollywood. Every so often, I wonder about the careers of amazing, beautiful brits like Simone Ashley, Gemma Chan, Regé-Jean Page and even Joe Alwyn, and how stilted it is, compared to charisma vacuums (to me) like Glen Powell, Emma Stone, Dakota Johnson. The latter are SO boring and bland to me. Why do they get all the roles? Is it just the vicinity/connections they have to powerhouse hollywood agents? Or is it racism (re: simone, gemma, rege)? They are so good at the roles they've played and are so objectively beautiful, but seem to not see the fraction of opportunities that come by american (white) actors.
Sarah’s Answer:
Well, we’re disagreeing about Glen Powell and Emma Stone, but that aside, the three main examples you give are non-white actors, so yeah, there’s a racism element at play. And for Simone Ashley, there’s also the extra layer of colorism, as she has darker skin. But stepping back from that for a moment, let’s just look at American vs British actors.
American actors will definitely tell you it feels like a new set of Brits come over every few years and take all the jobs. This happens for two main reasons: 1) Brits are almost always properly trained, and they treat acting like a JOB. They have a generalized reputation for putting their heads down, doing the work, and not causing a fuss. And 2) because they mostly come from a system of theater schools, it’s a self-selecting group. There is a lot less “I just want to be famous” among the Brits, at least as is perceived by American casting agents, because they’re paying to go to theater school and get said training, which means the “I just want to be famous” kind tend to opt out. (That said, nepotism is a huge problem in the UK creative industries, too.)
Of course, there are properly trained American actors (Sam Rockwell leaps to mind), but over here, we don’t really have a formalized system of theater schools like they do in the UK. Most American actors who went to “theater school” did it in college, a few do it at dedicated facilities like Julliard or the Actors Studio or William Esper Studio. But most don’t do it all, they just learn on the job. There’s nothing wrong with that! Except we go back to that impression that British actors, with their formal training, have a more workmanlike approach to the JOB of acting.
(It is said that Australian actors go to “soap school”, because so many of them get their start on soap operas.)
But to circle back to Glen Powell, did you know that Regé-Jean Page’s next project is a television adaptation of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid with Glen Powell? It is! Page is playing Butch Cassidy. Powell is supposed to play Sundance, but interestingly…his deal might not be closed yet. He is booking SO much stuff, he’ll definitely have to drop some projects, so I’m curious to see where this falls on his list of priorities.
But back to RJP. He’s currently filming a movie with Steven Soderbergh and Cate Blanchett. Since Bridgerton, he has stayed busy, even with the myriad delays of COVID and the labor strikes. Of everyone you’ve named, RJP is doing the best. He’s devoting himself to obtaining the most typically “Hollywood” career, too. Gemma Chan also stays busy, but I do think her momentum was hurt by the failure of a Crazy Rich Asians sequel to develop, and the failure of Eternals. Either one of those projects should have been the thing to launch her into the stratosphere, but neither worked out. And then there’s Simone Ashley, who, despite a major role in Bridgerton, has not yet parlayed it into anything else that big. But really, out of everyone on Bridgerton to date, RJP and Jonathan Bailey are the only ones who have really jumped off to bigger projects. I’m not sure that show will turn out to be a major launching pad. We’ll see.
A lot of British actors also have “powerhouse Hollywood agents”—they often have two sets of reps, one for the UK and one for America—but parlaying UK success to Hollywood success isn’t that easy, despite the generally good reputation British actors have among American casting directors. You basically need to either 1) devote yourself to living in LA long enough to build relationships with casting directors who will keep calling you back for more auditions on different projects (like Robert Pattinson), or 2) star in something that wildly succeeds and makes you A Name overnight (like Tom Hiddleston). But as with any facet of life, yeah, race is going to complicate factors. That adds biases that have to be overcome, on top of all the competition that already exists in the industry. American or British, it’s a harder climb for actors of color, full stop.
Question from Jen: Lainey, I have a question! Where does a first-timer start with k-dramas? You’ve successfully converted me to ARMY, I fell down the BTS rabbit hole in early 2020 with the release of MOTS7 and have been hooked ever since. And I think I’m finally ready to take your advice to start watching k-dramas. But where do I begin? You wrote about Lovely Runner this week, is that the right choice for a beginner or is there something else I should try to get my feet wet?
Lainey’s Answer:
Thank you for this question because it’s given me a new job idea: I would like to become a K-drama therapist. Like you tell me about yourself, and I’ll recommend to you a K-drama. Can this be a real profession?!
OK so, Jen, based on what you’ve told me about how I converted you to BTS, yes, you should start with Lovely Runner, because Lovely Runner is about a fangirl who tries to save the life of her favourite idol and then… time travel. The soundtrack is very, very good. And Byeon Woo Seok is very, very convincing as an idol. I mean, yes, he’s gorgeous, but his body language, the way he acts on stage while portraying the idol character is excellent. Also, he sings one of the songs on the soundtrack too and sounds great. Now I just need to look at his face again, very quickly. It’s ridiculous. Nobody should be allowed to be this attractive!
Another series you might enjoy is True Beauty. True Beauty and Lovely Runner are from the same screenwriter, Lee Shi Eun. It’s two different stories but what they have in common, sort of, in addition to the screenwriter is idols. Byeon Woo Seok plays an idol in Lovely Runner and a real idol, Astro’s Cha Eun Woo, plays the male romantic lead in True Beauty. Lee Shi Eun has a real gift in writing the second male lead. This is all I’ll tell you for now, it’ll make more sense when you watch. Keep me posted.
As for the others who chimed in on this question in the mailbag, in particular the ones who said they started Crash Landing On You but couldn’t get past the first or second episode…
I hear you but give it two more. Because here’s what you’ll end up really appreciating about that show beyond the romance and the non-romance parts are often what I rewatch instead of the romance. Crash Landing is kinda like Snow White. There’s a prince who comes to save her but there are also seven friends with whom she forms very close bonds. It’s actually four plus one (later five) in the drama but her friendship with these soldiers is soooooo much of the comedy. And her chemistry with them is irresistible. They are hilarious together. Once you give yourself over to the humour, the show will take on whole new levels.
Question from CaitlinL: Lainey and Jacek, what is your post-vacation McDonald's order? 👀🍟
Lainey’s Answer:
Background on this – I linked to an article in What Else? a couple of weeks ago about McDonald’s getting rid of their A.I. at the drive-thru and my relief about it because we always hit up the McDonald’s when we come back from holiday to make ourselves feel better.
Jacek’s order: Quarter with Cheese, Filet-O-Fish, large fries
Lainey’s order: Big Mac, Filet-O-Fish, large fries
Can they please fucking bring back supersize fries?! I’m halfway through the fries by the time we get home, and we only live five minutes away.
What’s your go-to McD’s order? Share below, along with your thoughts on Celine’s documentary and any reaction to our mailbag answers this week. And keep sending in your questions, Jacek’s posted a new mailbag request in the chat. THANK YOU SO MUCH for coming to our Squawk party day after day!
Keep squawking and keep gossiping,
Lainey and Sarah
My McDonald's order is
55 BURGERS 55 FRIES 55 TACOS 55 PIES 55 COKES 100 TATER TOTS 100 PIZZA 100 TENDERS 100 MEATBALLS 100 COFFEES 55 WINGS 55 SHAKES 55 PANCAKES 55 PASTAS 55 PASTAS AND 155 TATERS
"If you’re 25 you look 35+. If you’re 60 you look 40. Everyone just looks 40! At least in North America."
I turned actual 40 a couple of months ago and I have not been able to figure out if I "look like" I'm 40 and now I know why. What the hell does 40 even look like?