Mailbag for March 22, 2024
Ivanka's image rehab courtesy PEOPLE, Duana’s new show, celebrity "it" factor, gossip reporter rivalries, Crazy Rich Asians sequels, Peacock's (lack of) success, Dylan Wang, and Chinese fandom
Dear Squawkers,
We’ve mentioned Kim Kardashian’s friendship with Ivanka Trump a few times here at The Squawk – and the two of them show up in the chat comments here and there, too. Just as I started writing today’s mailbag, PEOPLE published a curious “exclusive”:
Let’s not pretend that PEOPLE stumbled on a source who wanted to talk to them about Ivanka. This is a placed story in a magazine targeted at the MiniVan Majority that’s meant to reframe what we know and think of Ivanka Trump, the daughter of that motherfucker who’s trying to become president again. The message is clear: she’s no longer involved in politics and will not be involved politics should the apocalypse happen (again). And then there’s the subtext that reveals itself when you read the article in passages like these:
"She's never going to be in politics again," the source says. "It's a hard position for her: she doesn't agree with everything [President Trump] says, but she doesn't want to publicly disagree with him, so she just wants to stay out of it at this stage."
Ivanka was a senior member of the Trump administration. She was in the rooms where it happened. Per Saturday Night Live, she was complicit, and she forever will be complicit in the damage that has been done, not just in America but around the world. Damage to marginalised communities, to women and children, queer people, people of colour, education, health care, scientists, artists, everyone – and DEMOCRACY.
But now? Now Ivanka’s angle is that she was simply a devoted daughter; that it was “hard” for her; she was in such a tough position, you know? It SO tough for her and Jared when they were in the White House and making an estimated $640 MILLION during those four years.
SIX HUNDRED AND FORTY MILLION DOLLARS.
Sure, it’s a fucking hard position to leave your old job that much richer while leaving a nation – and the rest of the world, really, since Trump’s poison has spread and infected so many other countries – in shambles.
Still, you know, we should feel bad for her, I guess. Because she’s just a daughter and a MOM. Of course, no fucking surprise here, Ivanka’s playing the mom card hard in this sickening PEOPLE article.
"The first election, she wanted to support him," the source says, adding: "She wanted to be a good daughter. She served his administration for four years, but she had enough. She doesn't want to do it anymore."
According to the source, Ivanka now just "wants to be normal" and continue "having fun as a family."
"She wants to think about nothing but her family, and what they're doing, and she wants to enjoy her life," the source adds.”
This bitch is wealthy, obscenely wealthy. She has seen and done and can acquire so many things most of us will never, ever come close to. So a story like this isn’t meant for money, it’s meant for reputation… and access.
We’ve already seen Kim Kardashian and Kris Jenner trot out Ivanka here and there, lending their celebrity and influence to her cause. Now, with bullshit articles like this one in PEOPLE, Ivanka’s building on that capital, hoping that it will protect her from whatever hell her father is about to unleash during this campaign and perhaps open up more opportunities to ingratiate herself back into the circles she now wants to saunter back into. As if by claiming that she was just being a dutiful daughter will somehow absolve her of all her crimes.
Fuck her. And fuck PEOPLE while we’re at it because this was a CHOICE.
Anyway, I need to dial down the fury now because I don’t want to be raging through this mailbag. So let me show you something really, really, really amazing: the trailer for Duana’s new show, Near or Far. Our girl is the writer and creator, the showrunner, and the co-director!
We’ll have more to share about Near or Far in the coming days. Now, questions, let’s go!
First, I’m combining two questions into one answer because they’re sort of related but not related in a related way. I’ll explain after your submissions:
Question from Charlotte: Who are your top OMG walk into the room and it's like you've been socked in the head this celebrity is so charismatic and amazing?!? And conversely, who are the celebrities who pop on screen, but when you're personally in a room with them, its very 'really, this person is a star?? Why?'
Question from Ketri (submitted in the Travis Kelce thread): I love this concept of FQ! Such a great way to describe that combination of instincts and self-knowledge. You know it when you see it (and also when it’s lacking). Travis is a great example of high FQ—it was part of the conversation about how he handled press questions about his relationship. He understands the dynamics, the value each of them brings, and he embraces all of it.
This is maybe a sneaky mailbag question or just open for discussion here, but I would love to hear examples of very low FQ either generally (e.g., someone who might have missed their full potential due to low-FQ choices) or situationally (e.g., someone who chose the wrong role or brand). I feel like there are also hilariously some rare celebs who are a bit inscrutable on this, like people whose low FQ actually becomes their whole brand and people like it?
Lainey’s Answer:
Charlotte’s question, to me, is kind of about “It Factor”, that magic, that intangible quality that makes a star a star. We all know it when we see it, I’ve seen it in person multiple times, and my answers probably won’t be a surprise to you:
Angelina Jolie, the minute your eyes find her, they don’t want to move. And your brain is trying to make sense of that face, like struggling to believe that it exists. But then if she actually starts talking to you, and you get to watch up close as all those elements, her eyes and nose and mouth and cheeks, start moving in symphony, it’s basically like… nature. Flowers and birds and sky and ocean all at the same time. A wild experience.
Also Jennifer Lopez. I swear the molecules in the room start vibrating when she’s in it. And with JLo it’s not necessarily how she looks, it’s more her energy. She really does have a glow about her, it’s like everything seems brighter. With Angelina it’s more like everything else dims, and she’s the only one who’s lit up. In JLo’s case, your surroundings kinda get soft and shimmery.
One more: Idris Elba. All he has to do is sit in a chair and it’s pure charisma, totally effortless. I’ve interviewed him a few times, on carpets, in a junket, and I swear, he could have said, “I love picking my nose and eating it,” and it would have sounded cool.
On the opposite end… Sydney Sweeney. I’ve compared notes with a few people, and we all felt the same way: she’s obviously compelling onscreen but, like, talking to her is, to put it kindly, unremarkable. This is why casting directors should be an Oscar category because they can find the spirit that comes out when the camera is rolling that most of us can’t see in person.
But this is a good segue to FQ. For those of you who missed it, FQ is a term I started playing around with this week in my post about Julia Fox. It’s like Emotional Intelligence (EQ) but for celebrity savvy: Fame Intelligence, FQ. Julia has it. Lori Harvey has it. And you know who currently has the most of it, in my opinion? Zendaya.
FQ is different from “It Factor”. Zendaya has the “It Factor” but her meteoric rise over the years is due to FQ. She and her team have calibrated her career flawlessly, moving her gradually from child star to fashion star to movie star. Her path has been paced perfectly – they didn’t rush it, they didn’t say yes to everything, they waited for the right projects, they spaced them out well, and also Zendaya leans all the way in when she’s outside, but she can disappear just as quickly. When she disappears, she commits completely to disappearing. She knows exactly how much to give and how much to hold back. This is outstanding FQ.
To go back to Sydney Sweeney though – she might not, in my opinion, have the “It Factor”, but she does have great FQ, and that’s why she’s had the year that she’s had. She is very good at performing her specific brand of celebrity, she’s aware of the image that’s been assigned to her; she at once exploits it and undermines it. Sydney knows she’s objectified, but at no point is she weakened by it. At just 26 years old, she’s in total control – developing, producing, acting; in other words, she’s in the power position, and it’s because of her FQ, she’s fully aware of the shape of her own celebrity.
As for those with low FQ – Justin Timberlake, right now at this point in his career, has terribly low FQ. Maybe he always did have low FQ but as a pale male he benefited from a cultural moment in the early 2000s that allowed him to succeed off the strength of others. And now that that time has passed, his lack of FQ is that much more exposed. For whatever reason, JT couldn’t read the room. Nobody was waiting around for his album to drop, and none of the new songs are popping. As I have said, yes, his tour is selling, but that’s on the strength of nostalgia. People are buying tickets to hear the old shit; no one is going for the new shit.
But I’ll end on a positive lack of FQ. You know who has very little or no FQ but that actually means he has the purest form of FQ? Keanu Reeves. Ketri asked about “rare celebs who are a bit inscrutable on this, like people whose low FQ actually becomes their brand and people like it?” Doesn’t that describe Keanu Reeves? Who else but Keanu Reeves? He doesn’t give a fuck about celebrity but that is what makes him a great celebrity! Pretty much the perfect celebrity!
Question from Jenn: I have been reading Oscar Wars by Michael Schulman (I'm pretty sure on Sarah's recommendation). I'm fascinated by the rivalry between the two leading gossip columnists in the 40s - Hedda Hopper and Louella Parsons - and had some questions for you. First, have you had any kind of rivalry with another gossip writer - known to them or not? Have you ever found yourself competing for scoops, or trying to get your perspective on a story before someone else in the biz? Or, is there anyone whose work you feel competitive with insofar as they inspire you to push yourself? Second, is there a comparable rivalry in modern gossip? I feel like today the outlets (like TMZ) are more well-known than any individual gossip writers. Is that also true from your insider perspective?
Sarah’s answer:
As far as I know, I am not involved in any gossip rivalries. But I DID cross swords with Empire magazine once, back in 2016. They reported that Gwyneth Paltrow would appear in Captain America: Civil War, and I said, No, she won’t, and they were pretty bitchy about it! Like I even got the cold shoulder in person from an Empire writer later that year at TIFF. This is actually the thing that turned me off scoops, it just makes people SO unpleasant. And for what? It’s not like Gwyneth Paltrow knows who any of us are, or what Captain America: Civil War is.
As for feeling competitive, good writers make me want to be better. It’s not necessarily competitiveness to be better than them, but people like Kathleen, Kayleigh Donaldson, Lainey, and Duana motivate me to keep working my ass off.
Finally, I would agree that outlets are more known than individual personalities these days. Nikki Finke was probably the last truly scary figure in show business. For better or worse, everyone read her scoops, everyone feared her poison pen. The Puck and The Ankler newsletters have big readerships, but I don’t think anyone FEARS Matthew Belloni or Richard Rushfield like people FEARED Nikki Finke. No one liked her, but everyone wanted to be on her good side. I sort of miss the days when there was a real, keeps you on your toes personality in the industry.
Question from SarahF: Are we ever going to get the other two movies adapted from Kevin Kwan's Crazy Rich Asians novels?
Lainey’s Answer:
I honestly don’t think so. Right now, I think they’re on their third writer and it’s been almost two years since there’s been an update on what that script might even look like. Meanwhile it’ll be so difficult to assemble that cast with all their schedules, not to mention Jon M. Chu is getting harder and harder to book. Cynthia Erivo and Ariana Grande get most of the attention for the upcoming Wicked movies but please let’s not forget that Jon M. Chu is the director!
But there might be an even bigger challenge to the Crazy Rich Asians movie sequel(s): the IP is with Warner Bros. Sarah has written extensively about WB and David Zaslav and how little he cares about stories and creatives, and do we really think this man is going to support a romantic comedy franchise headlined by Asians? He’s about to permanently delete Coyote vs Acme, a film that is completely finished, is ready for release any time, and that asshole is intent on erasing it from existence for a tax write-off. With him in charge, what chance does Crazy Rich Asians really have? I would love to be wrong but, you know, this dude is an actual villain.
Question from Betts: Sarah, the premiere of Girls5eva season 3 on Netflix made me curious about the “success” of Peacock amidst the streaming landscape. They have had some promising hits (e.g. Poker Face) and some of the back catalog that made Netflix successful (e.g. The Office), but I don’t know anyone who has a regular subscription. Would they have been better off doing something like ABC has done with Hulu?
Sarah’s answer:
I presume by “doing something like ABC has done with Hulu”, you mean streaming network shows the day after they air on linear TV? I’m a cord cutter, but I watch Abbot Elementary on Hulu the day after its broadcast. If that’s what you mean, the answer is: maybe. It would better serve cord cutters that way. I keep Hulu for that advantage, I do not have a premium subscription to Peacock because there’s just not enough there to keep me paying month after month (I have a few times paid for a one-off month to watch something like Poker Face and then cancel the subscription again).
But I think we have to put into perspective that Hulu isn’t a massive success, either. As of December 2023, Peacock had 31 million paid subscribers. In the first quarter of 2024, Hulu has 49 million paid subscribers. They’re not THAT far apart, both under 50 million (though Hulu is on the brink of cracking that milestone). Apple TV+ has even less, with an estimated 25 million subscribers (Apple does not release subscriber counts, so no one knows for sure). However, Apple TV+ wants to be the HBO of streaming, known for quality over quantity, and discerning tastes. I think they’re okay with a more selective subscriber base.
Generally, Netflix, Prime Video, and Disney+ are kicking everyone’s asses in terms of stats, with hundreds of millions of subscribers each. Disney has started bundling Hulu (and ESPN+) with Disney+ to make that subscription even more attractive, and I think we’re in for a round of consolidation where streaming platforms join forces to share and thus boost subscriber numbers—if not through outright mergers, then packaging agreements not unlike a cable bundle. It’s already happening with live sports.
The problem is, everyone waited too long to join the streaming revolution, Netflix and Prime—which started as a simple way to rent digital movies—had YEARS to get their hooks in. Everyone else is playing catchup. Disney has been able to compete because they just have So. Much. STUFF. If you want the most dominant force in pop culture for the last twenty years, you need Disney+. If you want Disney’s library of animated films, and/or Pixar’s library, you need Disney+. They get you on sheer scale. But the others have much less to offer. I don’t like The Office enough to pick up yet another monthly fee, and I think a lot of other people feel that way, too.
Question from Clåudia: Hello Hello! I do not have a question for the mailbag. But a general interest to know when will Lainey will cover more about Chinese sensation Dylan Wang ? I saw she had mentioned him as a LV ambassador. But that's it. He participated in the NBA All- star celebrity game and I had no idea who he was... But I was fascinated by the teen hysteria he generated 🤣😏
Lainey’s Answer:
“Hello hello!” reminds me of “Hihi” in Mr & Mrs Smith, the series starring Donald Glover and Maya Erskine, which I need to write more about, and I haven’t had the chance, and I LOVE IT SO MUCH. Anyway, about Dylan Wang…
As you said, I mentioned him when I wrote about Pharrell’s Louis Vuitton show in Hong Kong back in November and Dylan was there... with his hair in dreadlocks, MAJOR CRINGE. I’m going to make you cringe again with me because, like, this is mortifying.
I mention it because when he was announced to play in the celebrity game during NBA All-Star Weekend, it made me nervous. Like would he show up in Indiana in similar fashion? Thankfully, no. He actually did quite well during the game, got on well with the other players and coaches (Shannon Sharpe had great things to say about him), and the fits were not offensive. To your point, there seemed to be quite a healthy fan presence in support of him because he is indeed wildly popular right now, especially in China and among C-drama watchers.
That said, and I could literally write ten newsletters about this, Chinese fandom is a whole different beast. You think Swifties are chaotic, this is nothing compared to how out of control Chinese fans are and or can be. And it’s a whole complicated system often involving the stars and their studios and the social media platforms, and all kinds of money exchanged. I’m not saying that this applies to Dylan. I AM NOT SAYING THIS APPLIES TO DYLAN. I am saying this twice and shouting it because I am afraid, I am afraid of Chinese fans because I have seen what they can do to people. If the Squawk disappears after you read this, you know what happened.
Chinese fandom is extremely, extremely organised, like almost cultish. You know how things can get in a large group, right? Mass fervour and hysteria that, in the right combination of circumstances can become dangerous? This is what Chinese fandom feels like to me. I’ve heard that sometimes the “head” fans are recruited by the stars’ management. And they are tasked with making sure they post or upvote or even manage multiple social media accounts at one time to generate more and more and more hype. They also coordinate in person activities – like greeting the star at every airport, waiting hours and hours with signs and whatever as they travel from city to city in China, all for a short video of the star waving before they get into their car. But those videos serve multiple purposes. First, of course, they want to let the star know how much they care but also when those videos are shared on social media, it’s used as evidence of the star’s popularity, i.e. look at how many people showed up to see X at the airport because he is SO popular, SO famous!
But the downside of this is that when this many people make that kind of effort, the parasocial relationship becomes that much more twisted. And so it’s the pressure, the pressure to not fuck up, not do anything to disappoint them, because otherwise…they will turn. And “disappointing” them could mean, you know, living a life and having a girlfriend. You remember how Harry Styles’s fans reacted to Olivia Wilde and how messy and toxic it got on western social media? Multiply that by the population of China, lol. At no point was Harry’s career in jeopardy because he was dating someone that some of his fans disapproved of. But a Chinese actor’s career could literally end if he has the “wrong” girlfriend.
And then there are the fan wars. Fans of one celebrity might be jealous that another celebrity is on the rise. Dylan’s rise after the overwhelming popularity of Love Between Fairy and Devil in the summer of 2022 resulted in fans of other actors trying to spread crazy shit about him on Weibo and other platforms. This also happens in Korea. I know this is not unique to the east and the same mess happens in the west, but the sheer volume and amplification of social media usage in the east feels even more… oppressive? I’ve read about coordinated attacks on one star by fans of another that’s gone wayyyyy beyond what we’ve seen in the west. The most recent example of this was what happened with Xiao Zhan and his fans in 2020. I just listened to a podcast about this…
… that goes into fan culture in China that will give you much more insight into the sometimes scary behaviour of stans over there.
You asked about Dylan and the teen hysteria he generated. And I’m telling you it IS hysteria, but not just teens.
Now pray for me. Because you never know what might set them off and when they’ll come for you. So I’ll end it here by saying that I do enjoy Dylan Wang’s work, Love Between Fairy and Devil was SO good; he actually for the most part has excellent FQ (apart from the dreadlocks, his social media content is actually really fun); he seems to be expanding his range in the kinds of roles he’s taking on; and he’s branching out into fashion, launching his own label on top of all his other endorsements; and, well, he’s fucking beautiful, so there’s a lot of potential for him to break out in much bigger ways.
Let me live, Dylan Wang fans!
Thank you so much for all your comments and conversation about the royals and so much more this week. Thanks for the thoughtful conversations in the other chats too. I read a wonderful exchange in one of the dailies this week about Oprah and Ozempic between several squawkers that I encourage you to check out if you haven’t already. It’s an example of what makes this community so special to us.
Keep squawking and keep gossiping,
Lainey and Sarah
Ivanka Trump and her supporters make me so angry. We’re facing the death of democracy thanks to her dad and his lunatics. But since she’s friends with the Kardashians and is a mom let’s forget the permanent harm she willingly participated in. Fuck that. I hope karma waits around every corner for her and her evil family.
I haven’t even finished reading the mailbag yet but the way my BLOOD BOILED reading “she wants to think of nothing but her family”!!!!!!!!! MUST BE FUCKING NICE NOT TO HAVE TO CARE ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU’VE CREATED A WORLD WHERE THEY CAN BE TRAMPLED SO YOU GET TO LIVE ON THE BEACH.