I’m obviously too old and unhip - but Olivia who? I could not tell you a single song she’s sung or written. I’m no Swifty but Taylor is a seriously impressive business person, and has built a career that’s lasted many years and is top of her game. If there’s a ‘rivalry’ - Olivia is lucky to even be apart of the narrative. Coming from a totally biased place - Olivia’s vibes are as vanilla bland as they come - doesn’t stand out in any meaningful way, let alone have star power. But again, maybe I’m just an old who doesn’t get it.
I tend to agree with Lainey on this one. My read is that the relationship soured (pun intended), after the credits situation, and Olivia has no desire to be in a beef with the biggest star in the universe (outside of BTS and Beyonce). For context, Olivia's mother is a teacher and her father a therapist, She has played the lead on two disney shows, but for the most part was a relative unknow to the rest of us, until she smashed on the scene at 17 with her mega global hits drivers license and good 4 u. This matters because Olivia has been in the industry for years, but was never on the scene. By contrast, for those of you watching the VMAs tonight, Taylor was the main character the entire evening: drinking, dancing, living it up for the camera, posing for photos with celebs and fans, flanked by Ice Spice and Sabrina Carpenter. Taylor has been on the road for months and doesn't seem ready to step out of the spotlight any time soon.
Olivia, on the other hand, did her performance and dipped-- nothing good would have come from her sticking around and adding fuel to the internet chatter.
Taylor is an alpha - the same woman who took a Kim K snake emoji - and repurposed it into a centerpiece for her record-setting Reputation tour. It's very possible that Taylor saw a young, talented, ingenue encroaching too much on her territory - and made sure to send her a message.
There's a thoughtful video analysis from the swiftologist, who offers a balanced critique on this situation for anyone who is interested. I'll link it here, if that's allowed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeLBzrTgD44
I LOVE the Swiftologist: a fellow swiftie who isn't up her ass and has fair constructive criticism about her. He has been to the Secret Sessions and is really smart and knows his gossip.
I love her, and yes, she can be extra but she is Taylor Swift. She’s earned the space and should navigate how she likes and figure it out like the rest of us:) I love her leadership in the biz space and give her slack.
Sorry if there is a ban on discussing off-topic things in the comment section, but I've been an LG follower and fan for awhile, and am just wondering if we can ever get an update/explanation about what happened to Show Your Work? To this day I'm still trying to fill the void it left behind lol...happily subscribed to The Squawk though!
I know, right! And I haven't had anyone to commiserate with about it! There have been so many topics I'd have loved Lainey and Duana's podcast insight on.
Has anyone actually asked Taylor about this btw? Or do you think Tree Paine has made it known that she is not to be asked about it? I’m still gonna say no beef here because Taylor doesn’t want to engage though, and I think there needs to be a back and forth for it to actually qualify.
I also think that if Olivia really didn’t want to be asked about this, her publicists would tell interviewers not to go there, but as you can see, it’s actually helping keep her name out there in what has been a pretty long album promotion cycle.
Rosie Taylor barely talks. She only signals through her lyrics, business moves, Tree Paine's leaks to E!, The Sun, The Daily Mail, and who she allows to interact with her. Refusing to accept anything that doesn't come out of Taylor's mouth as false is not understanding how Taylor Swift operates.
Definitely a beef and I feel like Taylor is a coward as she has spoken in the pst about women supporting women- yet she never fully supported Olivia. Yes, Olivia’s lyrics are reminiscent of Taylor and Paramore, but she never denied they were inspirational to her. And you can’t tell me Taylor isn’t reminiscent of artists who came before her...
I feel like Olivia does have a young Hollywood squad of her own. Iris Apatow, Tate McRae, Madison Hu… She’s photographed with them a lot, they costarred in her last music video etc
I would hardly consider this group a squad. Madison Hu is Oliva's best friend/former co-star from that tween Disney show Bizaardvark. They met when they were 13 yrs old and Madison is now a student at Columbia University in NY. Tate has shared that Olivia moved into her apt building in LA, after the success of Drivers License. They may hang out together but are not constantly photographed together, in the press, in the way that TSwift glamorized the squad during her 1989 era
In that they’re not as famous as Taylor’s group? Well, they’re young Hollywood. Emma still lived in a motel when she befriended Taylor. Olivia is making her friendships part of the text of her work with the music video. And Olivia and Iris particularly have been photographed lots together at industry events, courtside at basketball games etc. I don’t mean “squad” as a pejorative, just that there’s an element of performance.
See, that's the thing. I don't see it as performative. When she and Iris were at a basketball game, they were once accompanied by Iris's parents (The Apatows - and that family also joined her at Glastonbury). It seems to me like they are taking her under their wing, almost like they are guiding her through this transition to global fame.
Ofc, the 1989 era was a different time. We all know Taylor was constantly photographed parading around with a slew of Victoria's Secret models (Karlie, Gigi, Martha, Cara D., etc.) at one point, even Zendaya was part of the squad until she wasn't. For the record, I am a fan of Taylor's, too, and see nothing wrong with a young Taylor finding her girl group amongst a young Hollywood. I just think their approach to fame is different.
Olivia seems to be trying to keep her circle small, not necessarily picking up models and actresses like infinity stones. Maybe Olivia is taking a more Zendaya approach to fame?
Hmmm... Taylor Swift is a talented and shrewd businesswoman, who I think miscalculated victimhood and how that would continue to play to a larger audience outside of her diehard fans (who in fairness, number in the millions, so a large echo chamber). She was, no doubt, headed for top tier stardom, but the VMA incident with Kanye catapulted her early and I believe she didn't understand that this happened because a) Kanye is not the nicest individual (yes, I know he has mental health issues, but so do many folks and they do not comport themselves the way that he does); and b) society, in particular America, has deeply ingrained racial attitudes/biases regarding pretty young blonde women and dark older black men (e.g. Giselle and LeBron's Vogue cover) (imagine if this had been say Kid Rock interrupting on behalf of Carrie Underwood, instead).
With the public response, I think she started down this route and it only backfired a couple of times (e.g. Amy Poehler and Tina Fey), but has been pretty lucrative otherwise (e.g. Katy Perry, Karlie Kloss, anti-LGBTQ+ politicians, etc.). The issue for her will be cultural capital and how much she accrues in that domain versus her industry and monetary gains, which are plentiful and widespread, but don't have the same relevance I think many entertainers/influencers/regular people are always chasing (e.g. think about the diverse Beyonce concertgoers versus the Swift attendees or Adele's fanbase... even Celine Dion) (I feel like Maria made a similar point about Ashton and Mila public face-saving). Hence another beef with another young artist on the rise, whose music transcends generations and demographics.
Olivia Rodrigo has basically maintained in interviews that she won't divulge the origins of her songs. Taylor Swift loves "easter eggs" as LG has consistently pointed out, so if she wanted to nip this speculation in the bud, she could easily. She has chosen not to, which to me, indicates there's something there there. Beefing with a 20-something is not a good look to casual observers of the culture, sure (people like me who don't have strong opinions on her one way or the other and appreciate her music, but are not pre-order lyricists), but her gigantic fanbase will continue to rally around her as will her plentiful rich + attractive + connected friends, regardless. She stays in the headlines and continues to break records. This will only become a problem for her if she wants to pivot and why would she? (She can also lean on some in her friend group (Zoe Kravitz, Gigi Hadid, Kendrick Lamar, etc.) to not be completely culturally disregarded.)
Rodrigo also benefits because she can maintain her "mystique," her album gets that much more press and she actually doesn't have to engage with that narrative if she doesn't want to. I can't say I blame her, as admitting or denying just opens her up to having to do so in the future. So, in essence, they both win.
I tend to agree with those who say that both T and O are benefiting- those who don’t like TS or think she attracts/creates drama- which she sometimes does and has- will see this as more TS drama and take O’s side, keeping her name around, will listen to her music to dismiss the claims it is like TS, etc. Those who like TS will jump to defend her and say that she didn’t do any of this, it was her team, etc. So basically- Taylor still stays in the news, stans will stan, and O comes out as the young ingenue who just wanted to be liked by her idol (as someone said, ironically totally echoing T’s playbook from when she was younger). I think O’s music and image are more mature than T’s was at the same age, but let’s not forget O has been in the entertainment business for a minute as well (though i know being in the mouse machine is not the same as T’s experience). Would the honourable thing be for Taylor to just put a post on her story and call it a day? Sure. But as she said “I don’t love the drama, it loves me!” (Wink wink)
As an “elder swiftie” T has always been casting herself as an outsider looking in and trying to prove something. Fewer of her songs are about confidence and being good at things than are about other themes that could be tied to being alone/heartbroken/sad/betrayed - she has a few self aware songs in the last few years but lots are still on this thread. So I think she has somewhat made her bed with stuff like this. Her music has undoubtedly matured and hopefully so has her self awareness- but the theory that you’re frozen at the age you got famous has some legs here.
Sometimes it's the fans, and then us, the media, who read wayyyy too much into lyrics or IG likes or whatever. Example: Selena Gomez and Hailey Bieber. And it could be the case in this situation. AND YET. Olivia's remarks in Rolling Stone, IMO, were telling. She claimed to have no beef - but it didn't seem convincing. And these two are very online people. They know what people are saying, and they know exactly what would shut it down...and they haven't shut it down. Or maybe they're planning something tonight?
Olivia not going to Eras Tour confirms what I refer to as a "freeze" with Taylor Swift. In 2021 Olivia was Taylor Swift that Taylor Swift this and then...silence. I'd Olivia was on good terms with Taylor, Olivia would excitedly discuss what she wants her secret songs to be and make friendship bracelets and attend 3 shows. But she hasn't been at a show. Major major evidence of a freeze between her and Taylor.
Yeah not just her comments but how her body language is described in that article really conveys she was making a point and knew what she was saying/implying. Especially the shade where she said "in 20 or 30 years she may feel differently" and be willing to take an approach like Taylor and her team 😅
oh look, Taylor is beefing with another POC. I love a lot of TS's songs too but both of Olivia's albums are no skips. I find it interesting to hear from Katy Perry and Olivia mentioning Lorde. I'm pretty sure they fell out too?
It doesn't benefit Olivia any to clarify if there is a beef with Taylor or not. She keeps her name in the press and don't they say that all publicity is good publicity...? Beef or no beef, I think her response in Rolling Stone was meant to be vague and keep us talking.
I think Taylor has historically initiated a lot of beef because she viewed herself as an underdog in many situations. But now she is undeniably a powerful, influential force in the music biz.
Has the beef-ee become the beef-er??
I’m also pro Taylor so my natural bias is to give her the benefit of the doubt. Sounds like it’s possible the other people (Paramore, other publishers) went after the credits first, and she happened to have gotten them as a byproduct (assuming Jack Antonoff’s surprise means she did not initiate the process). Of course she is the biggest name among the group, so she is credited as the ringleader even if not true. And/or Olivia is upset Taylor had the power to keep everyone else at bay and chose to be passive / participate.
I think it all depends - I am a native Spanish speaker and while I think Taylor is very talented and prolific, I would argue that we see Shakira to be as talented as her when it comes to writing... not sure it translates to English though... and I wouldn’t expect somebody who doesn’t speak the language to capture her magic
I love Taylor’s music - but lately I feel so conflicted. Why is she beefing with a 20 year old? But then - she is a very good business woman and very protective of her rights - why shouldn’t she receive the credit she deserves?
I don’t think I have the energy to analyze her - I just hope she cools it with the private jet soon 🤣
Is she beefing with her? As far as I know, Taylor hasn't done anything to indicate it. This is all just made up by the media to drive clicks and stans who like to fight each other online.
I feel like probably? Taylor has gotten people used to her Easter eggs and giving a meaning to all her actions - so I think it’s likely. Now - was it her personally or her team? That part we probably won’t know
Right?! She’s basically frozen her out. Unless in a roundabout way that counts as feuding? I think engagement more than anything is the thing that makes beef qualify as beef though.
Until/unless someone speaks up to clarify what actually happened re: credits it’s impossible to know exactly what happened. With the info we do know it seems likely that Olivia’s comments about using cruel summer as inspiration for Deja Vu opened her up to some very real liability; I think it wouldn’t have been a big deal but it was on the heals of a very clean sonic link to Paramore’s misery business. From Hayley Williams comments it’s clear that their publisher went after credits; from Jack (Antonoff)’s comments it’s clear the deja vu credits were a surprise and now we have Olivia’s comments indicating it was a team by team (not artist) discussion. My best guess is all of the publishers were involved and Olivia’s team gave credits/royalties to Paramore/Taylor, Jack, St. Vincent and Olivia was probably deeply hurt by it. There’s zero indication (as many like to speculate) that Taylor went after Olivia (and always interesting that all the other artists are magically innocent) but Olivia looked up to Taylor and maybe hoped the credits would be declined; who knows if that’s possible. But the whole thing led to an overarching narrative that Olivia just copied other people; it’s still haunting her even on Guts. The whole thing was horrible enough but throw in your idol getting credits and not saying anything? It’s clear that Olivia had a lot of hurt feelings over the situation, but that doesn’t mean there’s a beef about it.
What gets lost is a few things:
—Prior to this Taylor was a huge supporter; she sent Olivia a hand written note, a replica of the red ring she wore wrote she wrote Red, championed her on social media, etc. Taylor was never friends with her but was a supporter. The naysayers will claim Taylor went after Olivia when she felt she was a threat—the rest of us will just shrug and see a larger behind the scenes issue that was almost certainly not Taylor driven.
—Relatedly, Sabrina Carpenter was a huge Swiftie like Olivia and Taylor had been supportive of her as well, well before and of the credits business went down. I honestly think it’s gross to belittle the support Sabrina is receiving and opportunity to open for Taylor as some sort of petty chess move.
—the songs in question are absolutely about former relationships; grudge samples drivers license and traitor; in her doc about sour she talks about being dumped in May which are the exact lyrics on the song. Vampire is so clearly about being used by an older guy.
—lastly, as Lainey points out, Olivia’s squad is small, one of her friends covered a Taylor song recently and when she was called out as a “traitor” the friend laughed and told people not to believe everything they see on the internet.
I agree to an extent though that the drama could potentially help Olivia—more listens to her songs, etc. That would certainly explain the muted responses in interviews. But I think it’s all the more likely that Olivia isn’t a Swiftie anymore and while there is almost certainly no beef she may still be upset at the situation and just doesn’t want to be linked to her anymore. It’s as simple as that.
Sure! I’m not techy enough to figure out how to imbed a link, haha, but here’s the quote and article:
NME.con
Headline: Bleachers: “This album is about wanting to hold joy, and not understanding why you can’t”
Quote: Antonoff was recently added as a co-writer on Rodrigo’s break-up belter ‘Deja Vu’. Rodrigo was inspired by the bridge of Taylor Swift’s 2019 song ‘Cruel Summer’, which Swift, Antonoff and St. Vincent co-wrote.
“I had never met her, and I had never been in a room with her. So it’s interesting… because another song on that album, that was an interpolation of [the Antonoff co-written Swift song] ‘New Year’s Day’. But yeah, it came through the channels that the bit on ‘Deja Vu’ was inspired by that bridge and we were going to be credited, and I thought that was really cool.”
It’s actually interesting to revisit his exact quote in light of what Olivia said re: not being directly involved. Sounds like the artists themselves weren’t involved but her label gave them credit after Olivia admitted in an interview that she used cruel summer as an inspiration for deja vu. Makes it more likely to me that the issue was perhaps more that they didn’t decline them versus demanding them. Olivia said it in print, then the credits followed after she gave credit to Paramore.
Sounds like the other people went after credits first, then Taylor happened to get them without initiating the initial fight. I would think Jack Antonoff is her closest proxy among the parties listed, so if he was surprised, I would guess Taylor didn’t kick off the process.
You know how I keep saying lately that a LOT of the time, beefs in Hollywood are about money? This is a good example. Some are putting it at 50% for Olivia - this is not insignificant considering that profits for artists are dwindling in the recording industry.
Putting aside how justified it may or may not have been, there's no way you could have one of your musical idols come for credit on your music (and subsequently, your paycheck) and not have beef. Olivia is still so young and those emotions are BIG. It's fun gossip and relatively low stakes for all parties involved. As someone else mentioned, it definitely adds more buzz to her sophomore album.
Taylor Swift is 33 years old. "Beefing" with a 20 year old feels kind of gross? Listen, I like her music and it's on constant rotation for me, but the drama around her is exhausting all the time. Someone clearly decided the songs that were credited to TS had to be and if Olivia is salty about that, then so be it. But you are 33 damn years old. At some point, you have to stop always being the victim in your own life and putting your drama on other people. Didn't she write the song "You Need to Calm Down?" Maybe she needs to take her own advice. But if this is all PR junk then congrats, because they're both accomplishing what they want - to be the center of the conversation.
I don’t think Taylor’s beefing with her at all though, unless you count ignoring her as beef? I think certainly they’re both disappointed with each other but Taylor deciding not to engage is I think a better way to deal with this situation than outright animosity. That way they can both claim there’s nothing going on while also keeping people intrigued about whether or not there is actually beef between them. Olivia benefits way more from this than Taylor in that sense because there’s always so much else going on in the Taylor Swift universe.
I do feel bad for Sabrina Carpenter through all this though, like she’s always the secondary character here, but the thing is her music is actually legitimately good!
I’m a bit confused by this take—how is Taylor acting the victim here? She’s said exactly zero on it; it’s not on her if reporters use her name for clicks. We don’t even know if it was Taylor’s team (or the publishers) who requested credits. We know from her bestie producer that the credits were a surprise; it seems mostly likely to me that the hurt feelings may be that Olivia wanted Taylor &co to speak up publicly about it.
That aside; Taylor is in the news 24/7 because it gets clicks and eyeballs. There is absolutely genuine criticism of Taylor but in this situation I’m not really seeing how she’s responsible for the constant drama around it. If anything, there could be something said for the fact that Olivia isn’t more clearly articulating that there isn’t beef, if that’s genuine and she doesn’t want the Taylor talk to overshadow the release; the opaque references though may help get her more streams, it’s an interesting strategy and honestly I couldn’t really fault her for it. Ironically it’s from the Taylor strategy book!
Hi!! Totally get it. it’s my understanding that Sabrina’s been a huge Swiftie her whole life; and met Taylor before Olivia even released her first album. Taylor was supportive of Sabrina the way she’s been with many artists. It’s only now that their is “beef” that that connection is being twisted (by literally the media only) to be a petty move by Taylor. It would be akin to twisting Olivia’s sending of sour/guts packages to the Kardashians; neither was a slight against the other!
I personally get upset that folks belittle Sabrina’s position on the Eras tour as somehow being a petty move against Olivia. Sabrina is talented and her own work was overshadowed by the Olivia drama; now she has a chance of a lifetime and it’s only because Taylor wants to be petty? Their entire friendship is so Taylor can stick it to Olivia whom she’s met all of once? That’s not really persuasive to me and evidence of the media twisted the narrative for more drama!
Very much agree with all this, I wouldn’t call myself a fan, but I just happened to hear her music because of Spotify’s algorithm and her last album is fantastic. I feel bad that people position her as a pawn in all this when she’s actually really talented.
I feel like the beef is real between them, but it's also very useful beef, if that makes sense. For Olivia, this gets people talking and invested in her second album (which also had that frisson of gossip because of Driver's License) and for Taylor, this gossip is more low-stakes than the breakup with Joe Alwyn and the rebound with Matty Healy or whatever his name is. (Sorry but as a black woman I refuse to remember anything about this man aside from the fact that he is Gross.)
I second Hannah’s thoughts. This gets Olivia a ton of publicity, so true or not, why would she confirm it? There’s a whole spectrum of possibilities here, but not confirming and barely denying is the smart play, and as Hannah pointed out, it deflects for Taylor. Everybody wins.
I’m obviously too old and unhip - but Olivia who? I could not tell you a single song she’s sung or written. I’m no Swifty but Taylor is a seriously impressive business person, and has built a career that’s lasted many years and is top of her game. If there’s a ‘rivalry’ - Olivia is lucky to even be apart of the narrative. Coming from a totally biased place - Olivia’s vibes are as vanilla bland as they come - doesn’t stand out in any meaningful way, let alone have star power. But again, maybe I’m just an old who doesn’t get it.
I tend to agree with Lainey on this one. My read is that the relationship soured (pun intended), after the credits situation, and Olivia has no desire to be in a beef with the biggest star in the universe (outside of BTS and Beyonce). For context, Olivia's mother is a teacher and her father a therapist, She has played the lead on two disney shows, but for the most part was a relative unknow to the rest of us, until she smashed on the scene at 17 with her mega global hits drivers license and good 4 u. This matters because Olivia has been in the industry for years, but was never on the scene. By contrast, for those of you watching the VMAs tonight, Taylor was the main character the entire evening: drinking, dancing, living it up for the camera, posing for photos with celebs and fans, flanked by Ice Spice and Sabrina Carpenter. Taylor has been on the road for months and doesn't seem ready to step out of the spotlight any time soon.
Olivia, on the other hand, did her performance and dipped-- nothing good would have come from her sticking around and adding fuel to the internet chatter.
Taylor is an alpha - the same woman who took a Kim K snake emoji - and repurposed it into a centerpiece for her record-setting Reputation tour. It's very possible that Taylor saw a young, talented, ingenue encroaching too much on her territory - and made sure to send her a message.
There's a thoughtful video analysis from the swiftologist, who offers a balanced critique on this situation for anyone who is interested. I'll link it here, if that's allowed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HeLBzrTgD44
I LOVE the Swiftologist: a fellow swiftie who isn't up her ass and has fair constructive criticism about her. He has been to the Secret Sessions and is really smart and knows his gossip.
I love her, and yes, she can be extra but she is Taylor Swift. She’s earned the space and should navigate how she likes and figure it out like the rest of us:) I love her leadership in the biz space and give her slack.
Sorry if there is a ban on discussing off-topic things in the comment section, but I've been an LG follower and fan for awhile, and am just wondering if we can ever get an update/explanation about what happened to Show Your Work? To this day I'm still trying to fill the void it left behind lol...happily subscribed to The Squawk though!
Show Your Work was life during the pandemic! I giggled my ass off on the regular. I miss it so much 😫
Ugh I LOVED that podcast!!!! I am SO sad it has been on the shelf 😢
I know, right! And I haven't had anyone to commiserate with about it! There have been so many topics I'd have loved Lainey and Duana's podcast insight on.
Has anyone actually asked Taylor about this btw? Or do you think Tree Paine has made it known that she is not to be asked about it? I’m still gonna say no beef here because Taylor doesn’t want to engage though, and I think there needs to be a back and forth for it to actually qualify.
I also think that if Olivia really didn’t want to be asked about this, her publicists would tell interviewers not to go there, but as you can see, it’s actually helping keep her name out there in what has been a pretty long album promotion cycle.
Rosie Taylor barely talks. She only signals through her lyrics, business moves, Tree Paine's leaks to E!, The Sun, The Daily Mail, and who she allows to interact with her. Refusing to accept anything that doesn't come out of Taylor's mouth as false is not understanding how Taylor Swift operates.
Definitely a beef and I feel like Taylor is a coward as she has spoken in the pst about women supporting women- yet she never fully supported Olivia. Yes, Olivia’s lyrics are reminiscent of Taylor and Paramore, but she never denied they were inspirational to her. And you can’t tell me Taylor isn’t reminiscent of artists who came before her...
I feel like Olivia does have a young Hollywood squad of her own. Iris Apatow, Tate McRae, Madison Hu… She’s photographed with them a lot, they costarred in her last music video etc
I would hardly consider this group a squad. Madison Hu is Oliva's best friend/former co-star from that tween Disney show Bizaardvark. They met when they were 13 yrs old and Madison is now a student at Columbia University in NY. Tate has shared that Olivia moved into her apt building in LA, after the success of Drivers License. They may hang out together but are not constantly photographed together, in the press, in the way that TSwift glamorized the squad during her 1989 era
In that they’re not as famous as Taylor’s group? Well, they’re young Hollywood. Emma still lived in a motel when she befriended Taylor. Olivia is making her friendships part of the text of her work with the music video. And Olivia and Iris particularly have been photographed lots together at industry events, courtside at basketball games etc. I don’t mean “squad” as a pejorative, just that there’s an element of performance.
See, that's the thing. I don't see it as performative. When she and Iris were at a basketball game, they were once accompanied by Iris's parents (The Apatows - and that family also joined her at Glastonbury). It seems to me like they are taking her under their wing, almost like they are guiding her through this transition to global fame.
Ofc, the 1989 era was a different time. We all know Taylor was constantly photographed parading around with a slew of Victoria's Secret models (Karlie, Gigi, Martha, Cara D., etc.) at one point, even Zendaya was part of the squad until she wasn't. For the record, I am a fan of Taylor's, too, and see nothing wrong with a young Taylor finding her girl group amongst a young Hollywood. I just think their approach to fame is different.
Olivia seems to be trying to keep her circle small, not necessarily picking up models and actresses like infinity stones. Maybe Olivia is taking a more Zendaya approach to fame?
Yes!
(And even though it's none of my business, I wondered who the fourth friend was, lol. I had 2 friends when OR had 2 friends, and now she has 4!)
Hmmm... Taylor Swift is a talented and shrewd businesswoman, who I think miscalculated victimhood and how that would continue to play to a larger audience outside of her diehard fans (who in fairness, number in the millions, so a large echo chamber). She was, no doubt, headed for top tier stardom, but the VMA incident with Kanye catapulted her early and I believe she didn't understand that this happened because a) Kanye is not the nicest individual (yes, I know he has mental health issues, but so do many folks and they do not comport themselves the way that he does); and b) society, in particular America, has deeply ingrained racial attitudes/biases regarding pretty young blonde women and dark older black men (e.g. Giselle and LeBron's Vogue cover) (imagine if this had been say Kid Rock interrupting on behalf of Carrie Underwood, instead).
With the public response, I think she started down this route and it only backfired a couple of times (e.g. Amy Poehler and Tina Fey), but has been pretty lucrative otherwise (e.g. Katy Perry, Karlie Kloss, anti-LGBTQ+ politicians, etc.). The issue for her will be cultural capital and how much she accrues in that domain versus her industry and monetary gains, which are plentiful and widespread, but don't have the same relevance I think many entertainers/influencers/regular people are always chasing (e.g. think about the diverse Beyonce concertgoers versus the Swift attendees or Adele's fanbase... even Celine Dion) (I feel like Maria made a similar point about Ashton and Mila public face-saving). Hence another beef with another young artist on the rise, whose music transcends generations and demographics.
Olivia Rodrigo has basically maintained in interviews that she won't divulge the origins of her songs. Taylor Swift loves "easter eggs" as LG has consistently pointed out, so if she wanted to nip this speculation in the bud, she could easily. She has chosen not to, which to me, indicates there's something there there. Beefing with a 20-something is not a good look to casual observers of the culture, sure (people like me who don't have strong opinions on her one way or the other and appreciate her music, but are not pre-order lyricists), but her gigantic fanbase will continue to rally around her as will her plentiful rich + attractive + connected friends, regardless. She stays in the headlines and continues to break records. This will only become a problem for her if she wants to pivot and why would she? (She can also lean on some in her friend group (Zoe Kravitz, Gigi Hadid, Kendrick Lamar, etc.) to not be completely culturally disregarded.)
Rodrigo also benefits because she can maintain her "mystique," her album gets that much more press and she actually doesn't have to engage with that narrative if she doesn't want to. I can't say I blame her, as admitting or denying just opens her up to having to do so in the future. So, in essence, they both win.
I tend to agree with those who say that both T and O are benefiting- those who don’t like TS or think she attracts/creates drama- which she sometimes does and has- will see this as more TS drama and take O’s side, keeping her name around, will listen to her music to dismiss the claims it is like TS, etc. Those who like TS will jump to defend her and say that she didn’t do any of this, it was her team, etc. So basically- Taylor still stays in the news, stans will stan, and O comes out as the young ingenue who just wanted to be liked by her idol (as someone said, ironically totally echoing T’s playbook from when she was younger). I think O’s music and image are more mature than T’s was at the same age, but let’s not forget O has been in the entertainment business for a minute as well (though i know being in the mouse machine is not the same as T’s experience). Would the honourable thing be for Taylor to just put a post on her story and call it a day? Sure. But as she said “I don’t love the drama, it loves me!” (Wink wink)
As an “elder swiftie” T has always been casting herself as an outsider looking in and trying to prove something. Fewer of her songs are about confidence and being good at things than are about other themes that could be tied to being alone/heartbroken/sad/betrayed - she has a few self aware songs in the last few years but lots are still on this thread. So I think she has somewhat made her bed with stuff like this. Her music has undoubtedly matured and hopefully so has her self awareness- but the theory that you’re frozen at the age you got famous has some legs here.
Sometimes it's the fans, and then us, the media, who read wayyyy too much into lyrics or IG likes or whatever. Example: Selena Gomez and Hailey Bieber. And it could be the case in this situation. AND YET. Olivia's remarks in Rolling Stone, IMO, were telling. She claimed to have no beef - but it didn't seem convincing. And these two are very online people. They know what people are saying, and they know exactly what would shut it down...and they haven't shut it down. Or maybe they're planning something tonight?
Olivia not going to Eras Tour confirms what I refer to as a "freeze" with Taylor Swift. In 2021 Olivia was Taylor Swift that Taylor Swift this and then...silence. I'd Olivia was on good terms with Taylor, Olivia would excitedly discuss what she wants her secret songs to be and make friendship bracelets and attend 3 shows. But she hasn't been at a show. Major major evidence of a freeze between her and Taylor.
Yeah not just her comments but how her body language is described in that article really conveys she was making a point and knew what she was saying/implying. Especially the shade where she said "in 20 or 30 years she may feel differently" and be willing to take an approach like Taylor and her team 😅
Yea! This is what I mean but you said it- they know what people are saying.
oh look, Taylor is beefing with another POC. I love a lot of TS's songs too but both of Olivia's albums are no skips. I find it interesting to hear from Katy Perry and Olivia mentioning Lorde. I'm pretty sure they fell out too?
It doesn't benefit Olivia any to clarify if there is a beef with Taylor or not. She keeps her name in the press and don't they say that all publicity is good publicity...? Beef or no beef, I think her response in Rolling Stone was meant to be vague and keep us talking.
I think Taylor has historically initiated a lot of beef because she viewed herself as an underdog in many situations. But now she is undeniably a powerful, influential force in the music biz.
Has the beef-ee become the beef-er??
I’m also pro Taylor so my natural bias is to give her the benefit of the doubt. Sounds like it’s possible the other people (Paramore, other publishers) went after the credits first, and she happened to have gotten them as a byproduct (assuming Jack Antonoff’s surprise means she did not initiate the process). Of course she is the biggest name among the group, so she is credited as the ringleader even if not true. And/or Olivia is upset Taylor had the power to keep everyone else at bay and chose to be passive / participate.
I have always been hit or miss on Taylor's music but consistently like Olivia's, what does this say about me, a 40 year old woman?
I think it all depends - I am a native Spanish speaker and while I think Taylor is very talented and prolific, I would argue that we see Shakira to be as talented as her when it comes to writing... not sure it translates to English though... and I wouldn’t expect somebody who doesn’t speak the language to capture her magic
I see your point... I guess I’m used to it and have never thought about how untrue it is...
Totally. I don’t find English songwriting to be as good or poetic and magical as Spanish songwriting can be 😉
I love Taylor’s music - but lately I feel so conflicted. Why is she beefing with a 20 year old? But then - she is a very good business woman and very protective of her rights - why shouldn’t she receive the credit she deserves?
I don’t think I have the energy to analyze her - I just hope she cools it with the private jet soon 🤣
Is she beefing with her? As far as I know, Taylor hasn't done anything to indicate it. This is all just made up by the media to drive clicks and stans who like to fight each other online.
I feel like probably? Taylor has gotten people used to her Easter eggs and giving a meaning to all her actions - so I think it’s likely. Now - was it her personally or her team? That part we probably won’t know
She really hasn't done anything to indicate a feud.
Right?! She’s basically frozen her out. Unless in a roundabout way that counts as feuding? I think engagement more than anything is the thing that makes beef qualify as beef though.
Until/unless someone speaks up to clarify what actually happened re: credits it’s impossible to know exactly what happened. With the info we do know it seems likely that Olivia’s comments about using cruel summer as inspiration for Deja Vu opened her up to some very real liability; I think it wouldn’t have been a big deal but it was on the heals of a very clean sonic link to Paramore’s misery business. From Hayley Williams comments it’s clear that their publisher went after credits; from Jack (Antonoff)’s comments it’s clear the deja vu credits were a surprise and now we have Olivia’s comments indicating it was a team by team (not artist) discussion. My best guess is all of the publishers were involved and Olivia’s team gave credits/royalties to Paramore/Taylor, Jack, St. Vincent and Olivia was probably deeply hurt by it. There’s zero indication (as many like to speculate) that Taylor went after Olivia (and always interesting that all the other artists are magically innocent) but Olivia looked up to Taylor and maybe hoped the credits would be declined; who knows if that’s possible. But the whole thing led to an overarching narrative that Olivia just copied other people; it’s still haunting her even on Guts. The whole thing was horrible enough but throw in your idol getting credits and not saying anything? It’s clear that Olivia had a lot of hurt feelings over the situation, but that doesn’t mean there’s a beef about it.
What gets lost is a few things:
—Prior to this Taylor was a huge supporter; she sent Olivia a hand written note, a replica of the red ring she wore wrote she wrote Red, championed her on social media, etc. Taylor was never friends with her but was a supporter. The naysayers will claim Taylor went after Olivia when she felt she was a threat—the rest of us will just shrug and see a larger behind the scenes issue that was almost certainly not Taylor driven.
—Relatedly, Sabrina Carpenter was a huge Swiftie like Olivia and Taylor had been supportive of her as well, well before and of the credits business went down. I honestly think it’s gross to belittle the support Sabrina is receiving and opportunity to open for Taylor as some sort of petty chess move.
—the songs in question are absolutely about former relationships; grudge samples drivers license and traitor; in her doc about sour she talks about being dumped in May which are the exact lyrics on the song. Vampire is so clearly about being used by an older guy.
—lastly, as Lainey points out, Olivia’s squad is small, one of her friends covered a Taylor song recently and when she was called out as a “traitor” the friend laughed and told people not to believe everything they see on the internet.
I agree to an extent though that the drama could potentially help Olivia—more listens to her songs, etc. That would certainly explain the muted responses in interviews. But I think it’s all the more likely that Olivia isn’t a Swiftie anymore and while there is almost certainly no beef she may still be upset at the situation and just doesn’t want to be linked to her anymore. It’s as simple as that.
Hi can you share Jack Antonoff's comments about being surprised? I tried googling but there are too many recent headlines that show up
Sure! I’m not techy enough to figure out how to imbed a link, haha, but here’s the quote and article:
NME.con
Headline: Bleachers: “This album is about wanting to hold joy, and not understanding why you can’t”
Quote: Antonoff was recently added as a co-writer on Rodrigo’s break-up belter ‘Deja Vu’. Rodrigo was inspired by the bridge of Taylor Swift’s 2019 song ‘Cruel Summer’, which Swift, Antonoff and St. Vincent co-wrote.
“I had never met her, and I had never been in a room with her. So it’s interesting… because another song on that album, that was an interpolation of [the Antonoff co-written Swift song] ‘New Year’s Day’. But yeah, it came through the channels that the bit on ‘Deja Vu’ was inspired by that bridge and we were going to be credited, and I thought that was really cool.”
It’s actually interesting to revisit his exact quote in light of what Olivia said re: not being directly involved. Sounds like the artists themselves weren’t involved but her label gave them credit after Olivia admitted in an interview that she used cruel summer as an inspiration for deja vu. Makes it more likely to me that the issue was perhaps more that they didn’t decline them versus demanding them. Olivia said it in print, then the credits followed after she gave credit to Paramore.
Sounds like the other people went after credits first, then Taylor happened to get them without initiating the initial fight. I would think Jack Antonoff is her closest proxy among the parties listed, so if he was surprised, I would guess Taylor didn’t kick off the process.
You know how I keep saying lately that a LOT of the time, beefs in Hollywood are about money? This is a good example. Some are putting it at 50% for Olivia - this is not insignificant considering that profits for artists are dwindling in the recording industry.
Putting aside how justified it may or may not have been, there's no way you could have one of your musical idols come for credit on your music (and subsequently, your paycheck) and not have beef. Olivia is still so young and those emotions are BIG. It's fun gossip and relatively low stakes for all parties involved. As someone else mentioned, it definitely adds more buzz to her sophomore album.
Taylor Swift is 33 years old. "Beefing" with a 20 year old feels kind of gross? Listen, I like her music and it's on constant rotation for me, but the drama around her is exhausting all the time. Someone clearly decided the songs that were credited to TS had to be and if Olivia is salty about that, then so be it. But you are 33 damn years old. At some point, you have to stop always being the victim in your own life and putting your drama on other people. Didn't she write the song "You Need to Calm Down?" Maybe she needs to take her own advice. But if this is all PR junk then congrats, because they're both accomplishing what they want - to be the center of the conversation.
I don’t think Taylor’s beefing with her at all though, unless you count ignoring her as beef? I think certainly they’re both disappointed with each other but Taylor deciding not to engage is I think a better way to deal with this situation than outright animosity. That way they can both claim there’s nothing going on while also keeping people intrigued about whether or not there is actually beef between them. Olivia benefits way more from this than Taylor in that sense because there’s always so much else going on in the Taylor Swift universe.
I do feel bad for Sabrina Carpenter through all this though, like she’s always the secondary character here, but the thing is her music is actually legitimately good!
This is exactly how I feel! It feels a bit like Katy Perry 2.0
I’m a bit confused by this take—how is Taylor acting the victim here? She’s said exactly zero on it; it’s not on her if reporters use her name for clicks. We don’t even know if it was Taylor’s team (or the publishers) who requested credits. We know from her bestie producer that the credits were a surprise; it seems mostly likely to me that the hurt feelings may be that Olivia wanted Taylor &co to speak up publicly about it.
That aside; Taylor is in the news 24/7 because it gets clicks and eyeballs. There is absolutely genuine criticism of Taylor but in this situation I’m not really seeing how she’s responsible for the constant drama around it. If anything, there could be something said for the fact that Olivia isn’t more clearly articulating that there isn’t beef, if that’s genuine and she doesn’t want the Taylor talk to overshadow the release; the opaque references though may help get her more streams, it’s an interesting strategy and honestly I couldn’t really fault her for it. Ironically it’s from the Taylor strategy book!
Befriending Sabrina Carpenter feels a little mean girl to me. I am a Taylor fan! It's just tiring how much drama follows her everywhere.
Hi!! Totally get it. it’s my understanding that Sabrina’s been a huge Swiftie her whole life; and met Taylor before Olivia even released her first album. Taylor was supportive of Sabrina the way she’s been with many artists. It’s only now that their is “beef” that that connection is being twisted (by literally the media only) to be a petty move by Taylor. It would be akin to twisting Olivia’s sending of sour/guts packages to the Kardashians; neither was a slight against the other!
I personally get upset that folks belittle Sabrina’s position on the Eras tour as somehow being a petty move against Olivia. Sabrina is talented and her own work was overshadowed by the Olivia drama; now she has a chance of a lifetime and it’s only because Taylor wants to be petty? Their entire friendship is so Taylor can stick it to Olivia whom she’s met all of once? That’s not really persuasive to me and evidence of the media twisted the narrative for more drama!
Very much agree with all this, I wouldn’t call myself a fan, but I just happened to hear her music because of Spotify’s algorithm and her last album is fantastic. I feel bad that people position her as a pawn in all this when she’s actually really talented.
I feel like the beef is real between them, but it's also very useful beef, if that makes sense. For Olivia, this gets people talking and invested in her second album (which also had that frisson of gossip because of Driver's License) and for Taylor, this gossip is more low-stakes than the breakup with Joe Alwyn and the rebound with Matty Healy or whatever his name is. (Sorry but as a black woman I refuse to remember anything about this man aside from the fact that he is Gross.)
I second Hannah’s thoughts. This gets Olivia a ton of publicity, so true or not, why would she confirm it? There’s a whole spectrum of possibilities here, but not confirming and barely denying is the smart play, and as Hannah pointed out, it deflects for Taylor. Everybody wins.
I read a theory on Hunter Harris's substack comments that Lacy is about... cocaine! I find this compelling!
Omg wait I love this theory!