Gossip gremlins and dinosaurs, favourite junket interviews, on Guy Ritchie being direct to Prime Video, pre-junket rituals, and the Min Hee Jin/ Hybe /New Jeans situation
Love, love, love all the behind-the-scenes stuff, thanks for sharing it! In an interview a million years ago, David Duchovny said something about how his lawyer was an asshole, "but he's MY asshole." I feel the same way about Lin's people. He himself is an absolute delight, but his people? Another thing entirely. I have a theory that the nicer the celeb, the meaner their people. I see it in upper management all the time too--the nice boss seems to always have a number two who is willing to be the bad cop, so to speak, and say the unpopular things, etc. so that the boss can keep being the nice one. I'm not saying it's disingenuous (though it can be)--I personally find it very difficult to be an absolute jerk even if I need to be, and to have someone willing to advocate for me and be the jerk for me would be nice, I imagine. On another note entirely, my parents raised me with a real sense of fairness and so injustice/people lying, etc. drives me INSANE. I'm aware that the "truth" is manipulated all the time, but we used to have a base level of truth we could all agree on, and I fear that is going the way of the dodo.
Another great mailbag! I don’t keep up with Kpop as much as I probably should though I do like BTS and BlackPink. The rundown of the current situation was fascinating!
Also, TikTok is insane with blind items with zero evidence. Sadly, one of the TikTokers who did blinds, Kyle Marisa Roth, passed away very recently and the worst part of it is the speculation about her death at a young age. I feel that not only the fabrication of blind items but the feeling of entitlement to all information about everyone if they are famous/known is really gross. The crisis of authenticity we are having makes people hungry for truth; but we also have to remember that these are human beings we are making up shit about and their work (like acting, singing, dancing, whatever) doesn’t make us entitled to know everything about them. This is why I like LG- for the most part aside from if speculation is invited or relatively harmless we keep away from made up shit or sad smut speculation about health/mental illness/whatever. Thanks for keeping the Dino cave open!
Excellent writing regarding CDAN! I tried to read his blog years ago, and even then, I thought it read like QAnon conspiracies. To me, Lainey Gossip is the gold standard. We all used to be cruel about gossip in the early 2000s, but we've grown together.
I always liked reading Pink is the New Blog when it was a thing in the 2000s. He was fun and gossipy but respectful. I hope Trent is well wherever he is!
He's been out in California for a long time (he's from Michigan so I've kept track) and has participated a bit in the Hollywood process but he really got taken by the people who bought his blog- I think he probably regrets what happened to his baby. I always wondered why he abandoned writing - might have something to do with some sort of prevention by the people who bought Pink I T N Blog.
Hasn't gossip about celebrities always been a bit cruel? It's been better recently, but far into the early Hollywood days there was always someone ready to write up some nonsense. Was Hedda Hopper writing nice things (outside of her bigotry)? Isn't that why the studios were creating personalities for the public?
Man, I haven't read CDAN in ages. I used to read it back when the MV-JLo blind item was huge and Enty would post annual clues over a decade ago. Then his blog started going all QAnon and I cut him loose. All of this stuff coming out now is wild. I always recommend LaineyGossip to any one I chat with about celebrity. Our safe space is the best intelligent and thoughtful gossip sites anywhere. So grateful you gave us the dino cave to hide in and commiserate with each other. Also, including my occasional shout out to the universe about my beloved Michael K from DListed. You are missed so much!
OMG, you guys. Hope you're all gonna be okay...Take care! I love BTS and I love, love, love RM's writing skills and the way he seems to be carrying his fame and cultural identity is...so admirable and relatable in my eyes, but I wish he wasn't part of this. I get where he was coming from. He has a stake/loyalty towards hybe and Bang Si Hyuk was there for him and supported him in a way his parents, couldn't, wouldn't and the fact he is part in it, doesn't really surprise me, but...yeah...feel kind of vaguely disapointed, but it's show business. also, yeah, I still remember a certain scandal involving Lee Byung Bun and a member of a girl group Bang Si Hyuk was trying to get off the ground...And I wasn't really impressed how Bang handled it, tbh... anyway, take care!
Yes agree, I didn’t even join the dots of his album coming out at the same time as New Jeans. It feels icky for the powers that be to leverage his power and influence to send a message with everything happening internally at Hybe. I’m really looking forward to seeing where he goes with this album.
TBH, I'm a bit of a cynical asshole and I do think RM had a choice in whether they could use his name or not...😅 ( feel free to disagree haha) He may have opted to get involved due to a sense of loyalty and/or from a business point of view etc etc...BUT I do think they made a mistake in involving RM in this. BTS, and by extention RM has a certain name/reputation and this mess IS not what they are associated with. HYBE could have made it purely about protecting their business interests and try to keep it classy as possible by being private as possible and let their lawyers handle it in court, instead of rallying fandoms but...🤷🏻♀️ I'm not Korean and defo not the owner of a multi billion dollar worth company..so🤷🏻♀️... That said, OF COURSE man has been working on an album and Im always down for a RM album! ^^
RM is the tightest member with Bang Si-hyuk. I'm looking forward to RM's always rewarding lyrics too. Actually - the clever way that HYBE has gradually dripped out pre-recorded music, events etc has been so methodical and incessant, it feels like they're not in the military.....especially Yoongi with that amazing tour then the release of his concert in IMAX just this month. It was so incredible and he always is. But he's already been gone for 7 months and it feels like he never left. V is being saluted by the Korean media repeatedly because of his high military status and how successful he's been - he was on the nightly news repeatedly, well footage of him hitting bull's eyes with every shot plus getting accepted in the most difficult branch of the military. And Jin is returning in less than 50 days!
I have to wonder if Hybe knew this was coming and they have been strategically planning the rpwp roll out, one-day-at-a-time, based on the Adore and Min Hee Jin developments. We KNOW this Hybe team thinks 8 steps ahead. If they were sniffing trouble they had this long awaited solo album waiting, without a release date, in the wings. Did Kim Namjoon have a say in any of this? Who really knows? Each member did adjust their shareholder agreements with Hybe at their last contract renewal, but do they own enough shares to weigh in on “crisis management”? … especially when they are serving and are not supposed to be “employed” or actively engaged in other employment. I’m so f***ing curious how all of this went down. I would give a limb to know the inside baseball, here. Does anyone know a Shaman that could help me out?
Oh yeah, disagreements and resentments between ADOR and HYBE must have been brewing for a LONG TIME. Diagreements over money, over mangament, over control, credits, ego's etc etc... before HYBE decided to pull an agressive move like an audit and subsequent moves...Oh yeah, the 'how much of a choice did RM really have?' IS legit, especially since he is in the army, his free time and way of communication is quite limited etc etc. Yet, I mean... he's also 29/30 years old, with a certain influence and it is HIS name/reputation AND HIS ALBUM that will be used in headlines and fandom crazy shit, so,...I do think he least got the heads up about the situation and the question whether he was okay with them realeasing the title of his album etc etc. He probably also have a sense of loyalty, especially the kind of loyalty RM must feel towards Bang is...you know, also a factor? (but i mean, i'm a cynical asshole) Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the HYBE office room...That said, gonna listen to NewJeans, cause in situation like this, it's always the girls getting the most crazy/intense hate...
This is the other complication, right? Either RM knew before enlisting in Dec that he'd be releasing at the same time as NewJeans, he had his dates and NJ settled after, or he signed off on the plan to slot in wherever worked best. I'm pretty sure he can't engage in decision making while enlisted (I'm not positive). In any event, it's a mess. And they claim to not know about MHJ's machinations until a week ago.
All that said, it's not the first time HYBE groups, even BigHit groups, have released around the same time. The last two TXT releases were within a week of BTS member releases. Or TXT and Enhypen. Though this one is giving sideeye. I just hope for the best for the artists who are caught in the middle of some real $$$$ folks.
I did see something on sequencing on TikTok that we had Hope on the Street in March, then D-DAY film in April, now RMs album in May that makes me feel like it has been planned for a while but the date being the exact same as New Jeans is still a bit off imo.
I think someone asked on one of the threads about how different artists sequence their releases so they don’t clash with each other so maybe they knew it would be a May release but they only decided the date recently.
Also perhaps it’s not an issue for Hybe, the audiences aren’t necessarily the same. RM has always been open with his aspirations for his music career, the people that he can work with, that he wants to engage with his work is a different audience to NJ.
Ooh, good point! I mean, i do wonder whether the roll out of RM's album was supposed to be on this timeline or whether they moved around the dates...👀...
For HYBE to be this agressive against ADOR...Shit must have been brewing for a long time between them. So, i think the executives and lawyers at the headquaters of HYBE must have been working hard to develop a strategy how to deal with Ador and MHJ, specifically, behind the scenes, for a long time .but i can also see how the end decision'/roll out' of how to deal with MHJ, came together a week ago, if i make sense? If i was MHJ, i would be freaking out too. I don't think she's angel, but HYBE is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest in their industry and with that, all that influence, power and money...The odds are...not in MHJ's favour, i think.
I'm working off memory, but from what i remember about the mandatory conscription in Korea, you have divisions. You have the super hard ones, the equivalent of a SEAL traning (Hyun Bin did this) where you have very, very limited free time and can be sent off to do some dangerous work, but you also can be working in 'lighter' divisions, like doing paper work for a police station or the division where you basically 'promote' the Korean Army. With those divisions, you have more or less 'office hours', have more free time and where you even can go home during the weekends. Guys like Song Jonong ki have finished their degree during their military time and i remember actors having a kdrama/kmovie lined up pretty soon after they enlistment ended (and deals don't get signed super fast, i think). So, i'm pretty sure they can work in their free time? don't quote me on this, lol. that said, i do agree with you. It's the artists that are getting the short sticks of it, the girls of NewJeans are so,so young, I wished RM's album would have rolled out in a different way, and my god fandom shit can go bat shit crazy and no one deserves that...
They have free time, but they can't work their regular jobs. Any money made on activities done during enlistment goes to the military. It's why they didn't show the enlisted members on the YT videos of the others' entrances, because the channels are monetized. I am sure they are briefed, but I don't know about their ability to actively engage.
ADOR is listed as a contributor to music and/or lyrics to some of BTS' older music which I never noticed before..well, now. Didn't even know what ADOR was.
Yes, please haha. I love me some RM writing haha. I do think its possible he has written some love songs, but his El Pais interview lives rent free in my head, so I'm thinking he's gonna talk about the displacement he feels, too? Like he has done some thinking about his cultural identity, his place in Korea and his place in US/international music scene etc etc? Or maybe it is just me?
Man, that sucks for you guys, to have lost followers... You guys have of the most balanced coverages on this side of the internet, imho. I don't always agree, but I can see the work you guys do to write the most fair assessment of a situation/review. Now, I'm off to wonder whether my comments in the Squawk have contributed to this. Note to myself: work on your use of language.
Love your weekly mailbags. Just came here to say - THANK YOU for that little dig at Kpop group names. I've never understood how totally random and perplexing some of those names are. They don't roll off the tongue! And by extension, K beauty brand names. Like what's with the random colons, ampersands, commas, apostrophes, all caps, no caps, random caps, numbers, and generally nonsensical non-pronounciable names?!
I watched that entire press conference and.. well, it was heartbreaking to see Min Hee-jin actually sobbing and who obviously had been crying for days. Total 100% BTS fan forever here but Bang Si-hyuk has been brutal - even to them. Jimin was constantly in desperation while a trainee as BSH wanted to let him go repeatedly and it was only due to all of the remaining 6 (Yoongi was especially vocal since they needed Jimin's different voice, his dance skills plus he's the hardest worker) speaking up for Jimin..repeatedly. BSH does not support all 7 equally. He has his favorites and they don't include Taehyung/V since he ignores his rules and flies independently, making his own decisions especially now that they all have solo careers along with the promised reunification. But....I agree about that bananas press conference and that ultimately Mee Hee-jin may have done more damage to herself and her career than sabotage by anyone else. But it hurt to watch.....
Yes, I'm pretty sure its over for MHJ, not just at HYBE and ADOR, but i dont think she will have much of a career in the industry after this...I dont think she's an angel, but she is a woman in a very tough, male dominated industry and she was behind a lot of succesful girl bands...its hard to see this happen and who knows how this will affect other women who wants to work in this industry...
YUP. Bang gave them al lot of creative freedom, but that doesn't mean he was particularly paternal towards them. Those guys still pretty much had the typical trainee experience...and honestly, you dont buid a billon dollar company by being nice...
Business gossip is best for my veins. I almost got lost in the sauce, but the blog entry brought me back to this and it is JUICY! I don't know much about KPop because it feels like watching the past. We already did that. However, it must have been missed. New Edition is still touring right along with their successors. Kpop is almost like Motown on steroids the way music is cranked out. I am wondering (as someone from the future) why this choreography is ummmm.... exclamation point?? So, I looked up New Edition (successor of Jackson 5), then NKTOB, and their successors (ABC - created by NE alum, NSYNC, Backstreet). Big groups aren't doing massive moves, but some groups dance to the rhythm and others do something else. Some bounce and flail arms (how did I forget the bounce un-dance? MIB did me a favor, but Google brought it screaming back after I insisted on asking). Kpop didn't seem to have the hips going (there's sauce in dancing that footwork can't make up for), but they're far better than anything NSYNC/Backstreet was doing. I would love someone to explain if there's cultural mores that could impede certain moves because it's deemed vulgar (not asking for vulgar, but wondering about the expectations)? I was very surprised that Jungkook was grabbing at his crotch. He did it on American soil so I'm not sure if that changes the rules. I don't know if there are rules. I just know that KDramas are modest. Are KPop bands supposed to be chaste? Maybe Lainey's already explained this because I know that some stars don't publicly date, and have issued apologies.
Man, in terms of business gossips. If i could be a fly on the Samsung headquarters...👀 Those people knew how to hide the fact their chairman Lee Kun Hee was 1) terminally ill and 2) in coma for 6 years (he passed away in 2020) from the world and the reason why they were hiding it was because 1) everyone was fighting to replace him á la Succession style and 2) the family knew they would be presented with a 10 billion US dollar inheritance tax bill and they were trying to figure out how not to pay the bill lol. In Murdoch style, the eldest daughter is seen as the most impressive and capable one (she is Sookie but with actual accomplishments and credentials), but due to patriarchy, the only son succeeded their dad as chairman. ( the son was caught getting drugs from a plastic surgey clinic and he was involved in a HUGE embezzlement, fraude and bribery case; he bribed former president Park Geun Hye and that president was the daughter of a previous president turned dictator and 'controlled' by a Rasputin shaman woman...it was crazy following the news during that period haha. I saw a trailer from a Kate Winslet show recently and I almost screamed cause the writers definitely based her dictator character partially on Park Geun Hye...)
For me, I think one of the earliest reasons kpop caught on worldwide is because president, Kim Dae Jung laid down the foundation. He is widely seen as one, if not the best South Korean president ever and he is very, very respected in international politics; some people say that he should have won a Nobel Peace Prize for bringing stability in Asia and his dedication to democratic principles. He was the kind of state man who ushered and stabilised a new economic prosperity , built their welfare state and strenghtened their democracy, but also apparently someone who could predict a future where everyone and their grandma would lose their god damn mind watching Hyun Bin fall in love with his costar on screen haha. Anyway, he saw the potential of the internet and using Korean entertainment as soft power (probably by studying the US) and he was mocked for it, but he invested heavily in internet infrastructure and exporting Korean music and tv shows, first to Japan and China.
And you can kind of see that blueprint. Hallyu wave spread slowly, but surely through the internet (and it took YEARS for it to catch on it the west). While everyone else was iffy and unsure about streaming and youtube because there were concerns about copyrights, piracy, fair compensation of artists etc etc. Korean labels (for better or for worse) just dropped their music video's on the ether (with production values I didn't see elsewhere tbh) and let the internet users do the rest. Koreans discussed the music and lyrics etc etc among themselves through chatrooms, but there enough people not only translating the songs, but also explaining the Korean wordplays/slang and cultural specifiers, for people like me, who didn't understand the language. In fact, I think most groups/singers/writers were introduced to me through Non-Korean speakers haha. I grew up speaking/learning several languages as a kid, so trying to 'decode' Korean didn't feel much different from learning English tbh (plus, I didn't get graded on my Korean haha). My Korean is still rudimentary at best, but when one of my faves drops an album, I still try to make the time to 'understand' the music, when music is good, it's just good, you know?
As for Kdrama's. Yes, they are very modest, but the writers behind the most commercial succesful ones are female writers and it's written with a female audience/female gaze in mind. The guys are almost written as wish fulfilment for straight women and gay men and it's the guys ending up doing the bulk of longing and pining haha. Again, as a Chinese diaspora, it felt fascinating watching kdrama's (and Taiwanese drama's). S.Korea is a robust democracy, having survived dictatorships and military coup d'état, and as a teen, I used to watch it as 'wow, maybe China will also become a democracy' (now that I'm an old fart, I'm trying to make peace that will never happen and that China is turning into something that equally terrifies and makes my heart break, but that's a different convo). But South Korea, like China is also a country with Confucian values and through watching kdrama's; my own parents made sense to the teenage me. I saw dynamics on screen mirroring my family dynamics and realised we were not super, super weird. There is a Korean saying, 'Love is dangerous, but 정/情 is lethal' that hit me like a hammer. My parents were trying to be good people/good parents in the way they were taught by their parents. It's dumb and stupid, I know, but growing up, I was often the only Asian and I had not a lot else to compare to. I don't watch a lot of kdrama's now, but i will always remember that feeling of 'oh'.
There's definitely a lot of issues going, for example, despite dreamy guys populating kdrama land, they also have the lowest gender equality in the wokforce in a OECD country...but there is also a ongoing feminist movement going on, fighting against conservative gender roles but IDK, i remember following the news around Park Geun Hye and being so touched on how the Koreans (and the few Korean friends I made in Shanghai) defended and protected their democracy...In the words of RM, 'they have a lot of issues they need to work on, but their democracy is only 70 years old, growing pains will happen'....
Six years???? That's juicy. I never watched Succession, but I would have watched this Weekend at Bernie's version. The drugs from the plastic surgery clinic sounds like it came from a British crime show episode which was probably mined from this biz gossip. I'm going to ask Google to tell me more. I can relate to watching TV that has specific cultural significance and that's why it's so frustrating from a money perspective that the suits think nobody wants what CLEARLY so many people respond to. Sometimes I read criticism about a very specific entertainment work and it's obvious that the critic has no idea about the nuance of certain moments (because you could read a book or do your own homework and learn from past work, but you know...why do things that make sense?). Park Guen Hey was right on and we're all benefiting from his early buy in. Korean artistic output bypassed the gatekeeping. I don't want a westernized Squid Game nor a British Professor T. I do want more business gossip. Sarah's business breakdown on Friday is educational. Still not over them deleting very good work because they don't know art. How do you keep your job when you're a glorified bean counter? Half the work, twice as far. Shareholders need a show. Tell me about why they're so greedy and ineffective? Nothing substantial to actually show for their work (?).
Oh yeah. People knew of course that guy wasn't feeling well but they thought he was making room for his son to succeed him. Not being kept alive in a coma for 6 years, so his adult children could fight over who would take over the family business and figuring a way out of that inheritance tax bill....I'm curious whether they are pay that 10 billion US dollar inheritance tax bill lol....Someone write that show!
Just to be clear, Kim Dae Jung was the president who saw the potential of internet and Korean entertainment as soft power. Park Geun Hye had more in common with Trump. Her dad (Park Chung Hee) was a president turned dictator in the 60's-70's. He got assassinated in front of her and that's probably when Park Geun Hye started to lean on shaman for advice and support. Eventually she got elected as president, but the Rasputin like shaman at her side, were pulling the strings behind the scenes. It got really Trumpian like during her presidency. She monitored celebs who were not supportive of her with the help of the Korean equivalent of the CIA and soft banned ban those celebs (BTS was included in that ban and maybe that's why they found succes abroad?), she accepted huge bribes from conglomerates, including from the current chairman of Samsung (and apparently got botox injections during meetings or sth)and her incompetence at governing was just getting more and more apparent (the Sewol Ferry tragedy probably put it more in focus) ..When people found out about Park Geun Hye corruption and crimes, with the help of her shaman, Koreans demanded her to be impeached. There was a bit of fear of a coup (think 6 january), but she got impeached before anything terrifying happened.
Squid game wasn't my thing, but Korean entertainment have always been good at portraying classicism and elitism, even in their romcoms. You have to understand the subjects and topics you want to want to portray and not, we put white people in front of an adaptation , so it's 'prestige' now and call it a day. ARGH.
Same! I wouldn't mind more business gossips, seeing the current state of journalism and pop culture, it wouldn't hurt to understand the mechanisms behind the scenes!
Thank you for correcting me. I wasn't reading it properly and missed Kim Dae Jung. The six year coma and tax dodging would make good TV about creatively terrible people. Don't get me started on what makes prestige vs all the interesting shows that get cancelled after doing twice the work of the "prestige" effort. Even in a basic cooking show competition it's obvious that the extra adjective-d chef is going to win while you watch their cohort do twice the creative work. "You did this really basic part so well that the lack of seasoning we just mentioned doesn't matter. It's far better than the curry Eiffel Tower perfectly seasoned dish that the judges were praising. We meant to judge it on how much it wasn't basic and bland. You're eliminated, and we choose the person with the best bland around." Editors need a documentary. Examining class would make people think and advertisers don't want their status questioned. The Gilded Age is doing that on a slight level by showing a variety of characters. Deconstructing classism would be interesting if done well. We get a lot of circumstances portrayed as stereotypes rather than characters built out. This is why I'm curious to see what Barry Jenkins comes up with for his Disney iteration. It's Disney, but from someone in the margins (I don't know if his family background so it could be margins racially, but not in class). I enjoy his wife's work (Lulu Wang). Not centering non POC makes the bean counters nervous. POC watching themselves not represented doesn't affect the bean counter. Even in philanthropy business it's similar. There's a new one that runs like investment firms and somehow they don't realize that mirroring that system is inherently biased. You're statistically going to award the same groups with management that look like you. Sigh. Is there a East Asian skin color discussion for performers? There's a variety of shades, but it seems that most of the very few shows or singing groups that I am familiar with are fair skinned. Or is classicism the main topic?
Man, I feel you on the 'prestige' version of something...I can go on and on about it, but I will spare everyone the rant, LOL. But I agree so hard with you on that one, lol.
Hmmm...As someone living in EU, I'd can say, yes. I think East Asians are shit at discussing or even seeing the colourism problem. East Asian countries have very, very toxic beauty standards and well, popstars are still bleaching their skin like crazy in order to 'fit' a beauty standard. There are some Koreans popstars with a darker complexion and a slightly bigger body and the comments they get from a certain corner of the internet...🫠🫠🫠 And to be frankly, I don't see the needle moving very fast into a direction that's more inclusive...
I think??? East Asians are slowly getting used to the idea that 'foreigners' (non East Asians) can come in all shades and forms but among East Asians themselves? Not so much...if that make sense? I'm lighter skinned than my cousins in Spain and they always, always get comments in the veins of 'stay out of the sun, so you don't get tanned' etc etc... There are also docu's on youtube about how Black people experience living in East Asian countries, if you're interested in that?
I have noticed that Korean labels are paying attention to what is being discussed in the US? The recent ones that I can remember is when RM and Suga changed lyrics of a song because the word 'I/me' in Korean sounds very much like the n-word and because they were performing in an American city, they changed it up, so everyone would be able to enjoy the song. Blackpink had a music video with elements appropriated from the Hindu culture and after the criticism, they removed those elements. I remember people criticising the way the Pakistani character was portrayed in Squid game in certain Asian communities...I can't say how widespread these kind actions are, but I can imagine, if the labels are economically incentivized enough, that eventually, someday they gonna debut members with a darker skin...
Okay so the skin color discussion is not really happening from your perspective. As much as Black Americans (and South Asians) have frank conversations about skin color, I've still heard the "don't get darker" phrase so basically we're all infected with the unrealistic expectations imposed by colonialism propaganda. Sigh.
Is Korean similar to Mandarin like Portuguese is to Spanish? Mandarin has a word (if I recall correctly it means 'look') that also sounds like the same derogatory word. Kamau Bell tweeted or said he heard some East Asian kids using the n-word, and all I wanted to ask is if they were speaking English or an East Asian language. Another word for your posterior or rear end is fanny in the US, but in Australia it's not that at all. A fanny pack is not a harmless word in Australia. Language can be a rollercoaster.
I've seen the 'Being Black in *insert country*' videos and blogs. I didn't really have a noticeable issue, but I was mostly with other foreigners. In the USA, have I been followed by East Asian proprietors? Yup. After going to cities in East Asia, I understood that it was possibly a combination of bias and culture. Yet, I don't recall being followed in East Asia. Even when I found out how to get to the less western accommodating areas, I didn't have that experience. It wasn't long term so I can't compare or invalidate those experiences. I recall having a conversation with a white woman (American ) who was trying to invalidate another Black American woman's experience by trying to get me to agree that the racism the Black woman said she experienced wasn't racism. I'm still tired from trying to gingerly (no time for tears and tantrums in a foreign country) get her to understand that I can't speak on something I have not seen, but it's exists so it's not for me to say she's incorrect. Sometimes it's read wrong, but sometimes it's dead on. She chose to stick with her invalidation. I kinda hope she got the telling off she was ordering. Pffft.
I might be a skewing the data because it's happened more than once that an East Asian person assumed I was Blasian. Dunno if that would change anything. Then again, I'm American. That accent and blue passport has people treating you differently in various countries (it's a tiny tiny tiny glimpse into what it's like being white). Whatever the bias at the checkpoint, the blue passport makes a difference lots of times (for me). Another Black American with different features or on a different day with my exact face might have a different experience. Levels of conventional attractiveness also skew the data. The only concern I had was my hair.
There are SO MANY rules for broadcast on the weekly Korean music shows. If a dance is too suggestive or violent, they’ll want a modification; otherwise it’s banned.
As for dating, they don’t need to be chaste but they do have to appear available (to their fans). Privacy and personal lives also seem to be big cultural mores so even though they may all date secretly, no one hears about it until they’re ready to announce it and/or someone breaks it.
Okay, that makes sense. I'm not saying that we don't need any of the groups being churned out of their music machine. I was thinking about it from a western perspective regarding groups. Obviously, the Kpop wave is here and holding court. Appearing available to the fan base is similar to what western pop singers used to do, but it feels like this Korean iteration has a stronger force because their fan base feels worldwide. There's crossover, and there's the cultural reach within their language speakers that live everywhere. Except, everyone in so many other languages are singing along. With their expectations of behavior while amassing their level of fame should be studied. They mimic a Western style, but have eclipsed anything ever done in Western music regarding groups. I'd watch that documentary.
As much as as I agree about borrowing as far as wearing Black American culture as a costume (not specific to East Asia, we get it on our shores i.e. Iggy Azalea erroneously validated by TI if I recall correctly), East Asian cultural practice and aesthetics are constantly co-opted for commercial gain all over western society. Had Lainey not discussed mahjong's origins, I would have never questioned it. I thought it was an old white lady game. At the broadest, an old lady game. Namaste has been basic-fied and removed of whatever meaning. Latin and indigenous cultures have been mined in a myriad of flagrant ways. I guess they're using the western method which when mirrored feels different. I am still not a fan of Black American mimicry, but outside of that it's really an impressive show of what was never massively capitalized because you can't keep growing if you only want to center certain shades of skin. Although, I don't know enough about Kpop aesthetic to speak on the hierarchy of skin color and if the groups mimic western bias.
Thatnks Sarah for your response Re: Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. But I have a follow up.
If the case is, that these movies are getting a Prime release instead, is there some shame about that? Some clause that means Prime can't tell anyone that is what happening? Because I have a Prime subscription and there is zero indication that it is coming. Not in their 'coming soon' section, not under search results. The only inkling there is a Prime release coming if I google, is a reddit thread.
Why hamstring yourself on promotion like that? Or rather allow yourself to be hamstrung? I know NZ is a piddly market, but surely the UK has some weight? Or am I just colonially blinded?
I don't think it's shame, so much as they probably haven't set the digital release yet. They won't put it on streaming before it's out of theaters, because the minute something hits digital you have a pristine 4K copy on pirate sites. I bet when they set a release date, you'll see it pop up in marketing.
OMG the face mask description. 😂 I can totally imagine it.
And all the behind the scenes is amazing. It sucks that someone can gain followers by lying their asses off, but Jacek’s comment is unfortunately spot on.
Thanks, Lainey! I love your points about junkets and long form interviews, and I love that LMM was such an organic interview. I missed whatever you’re referring to about him maybe being an asshole? 😕
I don’t think she was saying there *is* an incident out there. But just that, with celebrities, we have to admit that we all see these people in different phases and different ways. While her experience with LMM was great and he was kind/considerate, she is also making space if someone else has had a different experience.
Love, love, love all the behind-the-scenes stuff, thanks for sharing it! In an interview a million years ago, David Duchovny said something about how his lawyer was an asshole, "but he's MY asshole." I feel the same way about Lin's people. He himself is an absolute delight, but his people? Another thing entirely. I have a theory that the nicer the celeb, the meaner their people. I see it in upper management all the time too--the nice boss seems to always have a number two who is willing to be the bad cop, so to speak, and say the unpopular things, etc. so that the boss can keep being the nice one. I'm not saying it's disingenuous (though it can be)--I personally find it very difficult to be an absolute jerk even if I need to be, and to have someone willing to advocate for me and be the jerk for me would be nice, I imagine. On another note entirely, my parents raised me with a real sense of fairness and so injustice/people lying, etc. drives me INSANE. I'm aware that the "truth" is manipulated all the time, but we used to have a base level of truth we could all agree on, and I fear that is going the way of the dodo.
Another great mailbag! I don’t keep up with Kpop as much as I probably should though I do like BTS and BlackPink. The rundown of the current situation was fascinating!
Also, TikTok is insane with blind items with zero evidence. Sadly, one of the TikTokers who did blinds, Kyle Marisa Roth, passed away very recently and the worst part of it is the speculation about her death at a young age. I feel that not only the fabrication of blind items but the feeling of entitlement to all information about everyone if they are famous/known is really gross. The crisis of authenticity we are having makes people hungry for truth; but we also have to remember that these are human beings we are making up shit about and their work (like acting, singing, dancing, whatever) doesn’t make us entitled to know everything about them. This is why I like LG- for the most part aside from if speculation is invited or relatively harmless we keep away from made up shit or sad smut speculation about health/mental illness/whatever. Thanks for keeping the Dino cave open!
Excellent writing regarding CDAN! I tried to read his blog years ago, and even then, I thought it read like QAnon conspiracies. To me, Lainey Gossip is the gold standard. We all used to be cruel about gossip in the early 2000s, but we've grown together.
I always liked reading Pink is the New Blog when it was a thing in the 2000s. He was fun and gossipy but respectful. I hope Trent is well wherever he is!
We used to link to him all the time. So many blogs have come and gone....
He's been out in California for a long time (he's from Michigan so I've kept track) and has participated a bit in the Hollywood process but he really got taken by the people who bought his blog- I think he probably regrets what happened to his baby. I always wondered why he abandoned writing - might have something to do with some sort of prevention by the people who bought Pink I T N Blog.
Thank you for the update! I’m sorry to hear that about the buyers of the blog. He was a talented writer- he would be perfect on Substack!
Whoa core memory unlocked with that name!
Hasn't gossip about celebrities always been a bit cruel? It's been better recently, but far into the early Hollywood days there was always someone ready to write up some nonsense. Was Hedda Hopper writing nice things (outside of her bigotry)? Isn't that why the studios were creating personalities for the public?
Man, I haven't read CDAN in ages. I used to read it back when the MV-JLo blind item was huge and Enty would post annual clues over a decade ago. Then his blog started going all QAnon and I cut him loose. All of this stuff coming out now is wild. I always recommend LaineyGossip to any one I chat with about celebrity. Our safe space is the best intelligent and thoughtful gossip sites anywhere. So grateful you gave us the dino cave to hide in and commiserate with each other. Also, including my occasional shout out to the universe about my beloved Michael K from DListed. You are missed so much!
OMG, you guys. Hope you're all gonna be okay...Take care! I love BTS and I love, love, love RM's writing skills and the way he seems to be carrying his fame and cultural identity is...so admirable and relatable in my eyes, but I wish he wasn't part of this. I get where he was coming from. He has a stake/loyalty towards hybe and Bang Si Hyuk was there for him and supported him in a way his parents, couldn't, wouldn't and the fact he is part in it, doesn't really surprise me, but...yeah...feel kind of vaguely disapointed, but it's show business. also, yeah, I still remember a certain scandal involving Lee Byung Bun and a member of a girl group Bang Si Hyuk was trying to get off the ground...And I wasn't really impressed how Bang handled it, tbh... anyway, take care!
Yes agree, I didn’t even join the dots of his album coming out at the same time as New Jeans. It feels icky for the powers that be to leverage his power and influence to send a message with everything happening internally at Hybe. I’m really looking forward to seeing where he goes with this album.
TBH, I'm a bit of a cynical asshole and I do think RM had a choice in whether they could use his name or not...😅 ( feel free to disagree haha) He may have opted to get involved due to a sense of loyalty and/or from a business point of view etc etc...BUT I do think they made a mistake in involving RM in this. BTS, and by extention RM has a certain name/reputation and this mess IS not what they are associated with. HYBE could have made it purely about protecting their business interests and try to keep it classy as possible by being private as possible and let their lawyers handle it in court, instead of rallying fandoms but...🤷🏻♀️ I'm not Korean and defo not the owner of a multi billion dollar worth company..so🤷🏻♀️... That said, OF COURSE man has been working on an album and Im always down for a RM album! ^^
RM is the tightest member with Bang Si-hyuk. I'm looking forward to RM's always rewarding lyrics too. Actually - the clever way that HYBE has gradually dripped out pre-recorded music, events etc has been so methodical and incessant, it feels like they're not in the military.....especially Yoongi with that amazing tour then the release of his concert in IMAX just this month. It was so incredible and he always is. But he's already been gone for 7 months and it feels like he never left. V is being saluted by the Korean media repeatedly because of his high military status and how successful he's been - he was on the nightly news repeatedly, well footage of him hitting bull's eyes with every shot plus getting accepted in the most difficult branch of the military. And Jin is returning in less than 50 days!
haha yes, they way HYBE have been dripping content steadily during their enlistment is...i cant complain about that haha
I have to wonder if Hybe knew this was coming and they have been strategically planning the rpwp roll out, one-day-at-a-time, based on the Adore and Min Hee Jin developments. We KNOW this Hybe team thinks 8 steps ahead. If they were sniffing trouble they had this long awaited solo album waiting, without a release date, in the wings. Did Kim Namjoon have a say in any of this? Who really knows? Each member did adjust their shareholder agreements with Hybe at their last contract renewal, but do they own enough shares to weigh in on “crisis management”? … especially when they are serving and are not supposed to be “employed” or actively engaged in other employment. I’m so f***ing curious how all of this went down. I would give a limb to know the inside baseball, here. Does anyone know a Shaman that could help me out?
Oh yeah, disagreements and resentments between ADOR and HYBE must have been brewing for a LONG TIME. Diagreements over money, over mangament, over control, credits, ego's etc etc... before HYBE decided to pull an agressive move like an audit and subsequent moves...Oh yeah, the 'how much of a choice did RM really have?' IS legit, especially since he is in the army, his free time and way of communication is quite limited etc etc. Yet, I mean... he's also 29/30 years old, with a certain influence and it is HIS name/reputation AND HIS ALBUM that will be used in headlines and fandom crazy shit, so,...I do think he least got the heads up about the situation and the question whether he was okay with them realeasing the title of his album etc etc. He probably also have a sense of loyalty, especially the kind of loyalty RM must feel towards Bang is...you know, also a factor? (but i mean, i'm a cynical asshole) Oh, to be a fly on the wall in the HYBE office room...That said, gonna listen to NewJeans, cause in situation like this, it's always the girls getting the most crazy/intense hate...
This is the other complication, right? Either RM knew before enlisting in Dec that he'd be releasing at the same time as NewJeans, he had his dates and NJ settled after, or he signed off on the plan to slot in wherever worked best. I'm pretty sure he can't engage in decision making while enlisted (I'm not positive). In any event, it's a mess. And they claim to not know about MHJ's machinations until a week ago.
All that said, it's not the first time HYBE groups, even BigHit groups, have released around the same time. The last two TXT releases were within a week of BTS member releases. Or TXT and Enhypen. Though this one is giving sideeye. I just hope for the best for the artists who are caught in the middle of some real $$$$ folks.
I did see something on sequencing on TikTok that we had Hope on the Street in March, then D-DAY film in April, now RMs album in May that makes me feel like it has been planned for a while but the date being the exact same as New Jeans is still a bit off imo.
I think someone asked on one of the threads about how different artists sequence their releases so they don’t clash with each other so maybe they knew it would be a May release but they only decided the date recently.
Also perhaps it’s not an issue for Hybe, the audiences aren’t necessarily the same. RM has always been open with his aspirations for his music career, the people that he can work with, that he wants to engage with his work is a different audience to NJ.
Ooh, good point! I mean, i do wonder whether the roll out of RM's album was supposed to be on this timeline or whether they moved around the dates...👀...
For HYBE to be this agressive against ADOR...Shit must have been brewing for a long time between them. So, i think the executives and lawyers at the headquaters of HYBE must have been working hard to develop a strategy how to deal with Ador and MHJ, specifically, behind the scenes, for a long time .but i can also see how the end decision'/roll out' of how to deal with MHJ, came together a week ago, if i make sense? If i was MHJ, i would be freaking out too. I don't think she's angel, but HYBE is one of the biggest, if not THE biggest in their industry and with that, all that influence, power and money...The odds are...not in MHJ's favour, i think.
I'm working off memory, but from what i remember about the mandatory conscription in Korea, you have divisions. You have the super hard ones, the equivalent of a SEAL traning (Hyun Bin did this) where you have very, very limited free time and can be sent off to do some dangerous work, but you also can be working in 'lighter' divisions, like doing paper work for a police station or the division where you basically 'promote' the Korean Army. With those divisions, you have more or less 'office hours', have more free time and where you even can go home during the weekends. Guys like Song Jonong ki have finished their degree during their military time and i remember actors having a kdrama/kmovie lined up pretty soon after they enlistment ended (and deals don't get signed super fast, i think). So, i'm pretty sure they can work in their free time? don't quote me on this, lol. that said, i do agree with you. It's the artists that are getting the short sticks of it, the girls of NewJeans are so,so young, I wished RM's album would have rolled out in a different way, and my god fandom shit can go bat shit crazy and no one deserves that...
They have free time, but they can't work their regular jobs. Any money made on activities done during enlistment goes to the military. It's why they didn't show the enlisted members on the YT videos of the others' entrances, because the channels are monetized. I am sure they are briefed, but I don't know about their ability to actively engage.
ADOR is listed as a contributor to music and/or lyrics to some of BTS' older music which I never noticed before..well, now. Didn't even know what ADOR was.
I think that’s Adora, she’s gone on to become a soloist at another company
Also enjoying this thread. Let’s reconvene when the album is out.
Yes, please haha. I love me some RM writing haha. I do think its possible he has written some love songs, but his El Pais interview lives rent free in my head, so I'm thinking he's gonna talk about the displacement he feels, too? Like he has done some thinking about his cultural identity, his place in Korea and his place in US/international music scene etc etc? Or maybe it is just me?
Man, that sucks for you guys, to have lost followers... You guys have of the most balanced coverages on this side of the internet, imho. I don't always agree, but I can see the work you guys do to write the most fair assessment of a situation/review. Now, I'm off to wonder whether my comments in the Squawk have contributed to this. Note to myself: work on your use of language.
Ah thank you for answering my q about the Hybe situation! It’s so fascinating, but heartbreaking to watch what’s happening. Here for all your insight!
It’s mess on top of mess daily! I hope new jeans comes out of it ok.
Love your weekly mailbags. Just came here to say - THANK YOU for that little dig at Kpop group names. I've never understood how totally random and perplexing some of those names are. They don't roll off the tongue! And by extension, K beauty brand names. Like what's with the random colons, ampersands, commas, apostrophes, all caps, no caps, random caps, numbers, and generally nonsensical non-pronounciable names?!
I watched that entire press conference and.. well, it was heartbreaking to see Min Hee-jin actually sobbing and who obviously had been crying for days. Total 100% BTS fan forever here but Bang Si-hyuk has been brutal - even to them. Jimin was constantly in desperation while a trainee as BSH wanted to let him go repeatedly and it was only due to all of the remaining 6 (Yoongi was especially vocal since they needed Jimin's different voice, his dance skills plus he's the hardest worker) speaking up for Jimin..repeatedly. BSH does not support all 7 equally. He has his favorites and they don't include Taehyung/V since he ignores his rules and flies independently, making his own decisions especially now that they all have solo careers along with the promised reunification. But....I agree about that bananas press conference and that ultimately Mee Hee-jin may have done more damage to herself and her career than sabotage by anyone else. But it hurt to watch.....
Yes, I'm pretty sure its over for MHJ, not just at HYBE and ADOR, but i dont think she will have much of a career in the industry after this...I dont think she's an angel, but she is a woman in a very tough, male dominated industry and she was behind a lot of succesful girl bands...its hard to see this happen and who knows how this will affect other women who wants to work in this industry...
YUP. Bang gave them al lot of creative freedom, but that doesn't mean he was particularly paternal towards them. Those guys still pretty much had the typical trainee experience...and honestly, you dont buid a billon dollar company by being nice...
Business gossip is best for my veins. I almost got lost in the sauce, but the blog entry brought me back to this and it is JUICY! I don't know much about KPop because it feels like watching the past. We already did that. However, it must have been missed. New Edition is still touring right along with their successors. Kpop is almost like Motown on steroids the way music is cranked out. I am wondering (as someone from the future) why this choreography is ummmm.... exclamation point?? So, I looked up New Edition (successor of Jackson 5), then NKTOB, and their successors (ABC - created by NE alum, NSYNC, Backstreet). Big groups aren't doing massive moves, but some groups dance to the rhythm and others do something else. Some bounce and flail arms (how did I forget the bounce un-dance? MIB did me a favor, but Google brought it screaming back after I insisted on asking). Kpop didn't seem to have the hips going (there's sauce in dancing that footwork can't make up for), but they're far better than anything NSYNC/Backstreet was doing. I would love someone to explain if there's cultural mores that could impede certain moves because it's deemed vulgar (not asking for vulgar, but wondering about the expectations)? I was very surprised that Jungkook was grabbing at his crotch. He did it on American soil so I'm not sure if that changes the rules. I don't know if there are rules. I just know that KDramas are modest. Are KPop bands supposed to be chaste? Maybe Lainey's already explained this because I know that some stars don't publicly date, and have issued apologies.
Man, in terms of business gossips. If i could be a fly on the Samsung headquarters...👀 Those people knew how to hide the fact their chairman Lee Kun Hee was 1) terminally ill and 2) in coma for 6 years (he passed away in 2020) from the world and the reason why they were hiding it was because 1) everyone was fighting to replace him á la Succession style and 2) the family knew they would be presented with a 10 billion US dollar inheritance tax bill and they were trying to figure out how not to pay the bill lol. In Murdoch style, the eldest daughter is seen as the most impressive and capable one (she is Sookie but with actual accomplishments and credentials), but due to patriarchy, the only son succeeded their dad as chairman. ( the son was caught getting drugs from a plastic surgey clinic and he was involved in a HUGE embezzlement, fraude and bribery case; he bribed former president Park Geun Hye and that president was the daughter of a previous president turned dictator and 'controlled' by a Rasputin shaman woman...it was crazy following the news during that period haha. I saw a trailer from a Kate Winslet show recently and I almost screamed cause the writers definitely based her dictator character partially on Park Geun Hye...)
For me, I think one of the earliest reasons kpop caught on worldwide is because president, Kim Dae Jung laid down the foundation. He is widely seen as one, if not the best South Korean president ever and he is very, very respected in international politics; some people say that he should have won a Nobel Peace Prize for bringing stability in Asia and his dedication to democratic principles. He was the kind of state man who ushered and stabilised a new economic prosperity , built their welfare state and strenghtened their democracy, but also apparently someone who could predict a future where everyone and their grandma would lose their god damn mind watching Hyun Bin fall in love with his costar on screen haha. Anyway, he saw the potential of the internet and using Korean entertainment as soft power (probably by studying the US) and he was mocked for it, but he invested heavily in internet infrastructure and exporting Korean music and tv shows, first to Japan and China.
And you can kind of see that blueprint. Hallyu wave spread slowly, but surely through the internet (and it took YEARS for it to catch on it the west). While everyone else was iffy and unsure about streaming and youtube because there were concerns about copyrights, piracy, fair compensation of artists etc etc. Korean labels (for better or for worse) just dropped their music video's on the ether (with production values I didn't see elsewhere tbh) and let the internet users do the rest. Koreans discussed the music and lyrics etc etc among themselves through chatrooms, but there enough people not only translating the songs, but also explaining the Korean wordplays/slang and cultural specifiers, for people like me, who didn't understand the language. In fact, I think most groups/singers/writers were introduced to me through Non-Korean speakers haha. I grew up speaking/learning several languages as a kid, so trying to 'decode' Korean didn't feel much different from learning English tbh (plus, I didn't get graded on my Korean haha). My Korean is still rudimentary at best, but when one of my faves drops an album, I still try to make the time to 'understand' the music, when music is good, it's just good, you know?
As for Kdrama's. Yes, they are very modest, but the writers behind the most commercial succesful ones are female writers and it's written with a female audience/female gaze in mind. The guys are almost written as wish fulfilment for straight women and gay men and it's the guys ending up doing the bulk of longing and pining haha. Again, as a Chinese diaspora, it felt fascinating watching kdrama's (and Taiwanese drama's). S.Korea is a robust democracy, having survived dictatorships and military coup d'état, and as a teen, I used to watch it as 'wow, maybe China will also become a democracy' (now that I'm an old fart, I'm trying to make peace that will never happen and that China is turning into something that equally terrifies and makes my heart break, but that's a different convo). But South Korea, like China is also a country with Confucian values and through watching kdrama's; my own parents made sense to the teenage me. I saw dynamics on screen mirroring my family dynamics and realised we were not super, super weird. There is a Korean saying, 'Love is dangerous, but 정/情 is lethal' that hit me like a hammer. My parents were trying to be good people/good parents in the way they were taught by their parents. It's dumb and stupid, I know, but growing up, I was often the only Asian and I had not a lot else to compare to. I don't watch a lot of kdrama's now, but i will always remember that feeling of 'oh'.
There's definitely a lot of issues going, for example, despite dreamy guys populating kdrama land, they also have the lowest gender equality in the wokforce in a OECD country...but there is also a ongoing feminist movement going on, fighting against conservative gender roles but IDK, i remember following the news around Park Geun Hye and being so touched on how the Koreans (and the few Korean friends I made in Shanghai) defended and protected their democracy...In the words of RM, 'they have a lot of issues they need to work on, but their democracy is only 70 years old, growing pains will happen'....
Six years???? That's juicy. I never watched Succession, but I would have watched this Weekend at Bernie's version. The drugs from the plastic surgery clinic sounds like it came from a British crime show episode which was probably mined from this biz gossip. I'm going to ask Google to tell me more. I can relate to watching TV that has specific cultural significance and that's why it's so frustrating from a money perspective that the suits think nobody wants what CLEARLY so many people respond to. Sometimes I read criticism about a very specific entertainment work and it's obvious that the critic has no idea about the nuance of certain moments (because you could read a book or do your own homework and learn from past work, but you know...why do things that make sense?). Park Guen Hey was right on and we're all benefiting from his early buy in. Korean artistic output bypassed the gatekeeping. I don't want a westernized Squid Game nor a British Professor T. I do want more business gossip. Sarah's business breakdown on Friday is educational. Still not over them deleting very good work because they don't know art. How do you keep your job when you're a glorified bean counter? Half the work, twice as far. Shareholders need a show. Tell me about why they're so greedy and ineffective? Nothing substantial to actually show for their work (?).
Oh yeah. People knew of course that guy wasn't feeling well but they thought he was making room for his son to succeed him. Not being kept alive in a coma for 6 years, so his adult children could fight over who would take over the family business and figuring a way out of that inheritance tax bill....I'm curious whether they are pay that 10 billion US dollar inheritance tax bill lol....Someone write that show!
Just to be clear, Kim Dae Jung was the president who saw the potential of internet and Korean entertainment as soft power. Park Geun Hye had more in common with Trump. Her dad (Park Chung Hee) was a president turned dictator in the 60's-70's. He got assassinated in front of her and that's probably when Park Geun Hye started to lean on shaman for advice and support. Eventually she got elected as president, but the Rasputin like shaman at her side, were pulling the strings behind the scenes. It got really Trumpian like during her presidency. She monitored celebs who were not supportive of her with the help of the Korean equivalent of the CIA and soft banned ban those celebs (BTS was included in that ban and maybe that's why they found succes abroad?), she accepted huge bribes from conglomerates, including from the current chairman of Samsung (and apparently got botox injections during meetings or sth)and her incompetence at governing was just getting more and more apparent (the Sewol Ferry tragedy probably put it more in focus) ..When people found out about Park Geun Hye corruption and crimes, with the help of her shaman, Koreans demanded her to be impeached. There was a bit of fear of a coup (think 6 january), but she got impeached before anything terrifying happened.
Squid game wasn't my thing, but Korean entertainment have always been good at portraying classicism and elitism, even in their romcoms. You have to understand the subjects and topics you want to want to portray and not, we put white people in front of an adaptation , so it's 'prestige' now and call it a day. ARGH.
Same! I wouldn't mind more business gossips, seeing the current state of journalism and pop culture, it wouldn't hurt to understand the mechanisms behind the scenes!
Thank you for correcting me. I wasn't reading it properly and missed Kim Dae Jung. The six year coma and tax dodging would make good TV about creatively terrible people. Don't get me started on what makes prestige vs all the interesting shows that get cancelled after doing twice the work of the "prestige" effort. Even in a basic cooking show competition it's obvious that the extra adjective-d chef is going to win while you watch their cohort do twice the creative work. "You did this really basic part so well that the lack of seasoning we just mentioned doesn't matter. It's far better than the curry Eiffel Tower perfectly seasoned dish that the judges were praising. We meant to judge it on how much it wasn't basic and bland. You're eliminated, and we choose the person with the best bland around." Editors need a documentary. Examining class would make people think and advertisers don't want their status questioned. The Gilded Age is doing that on a slight level by showing a variety of characters. Deconstructing classism would be interesting if done well. We get a lot of circumstances portrayed as stereotypes rather than characters built out. This is why I'm curious to see what Barry Jenkins comes up with for his Disney iteration. It's Disney, but from someone in the margins (I don't know if his family background so it could be margins racially, but not in class). I enjoy his wife's work (Lulu Wang). Not centering non POC makes the bean counters nervous. POC watching themselves not represented doesn't affect the bean counter. Even in philanthropy business it's similar. There's a new one that runs like investment firms and somehow they don't realize that mirroring that system is inherently biased. You're statistically going to award the same groups with management that look like you. Sigh. Is there a East Asian skin color discussion for performers? There's a variety of shades, but it seems that most of the very few shows or singing groups that I am familiar with are fair skinned. Or is classicism the main topic?
Man, I feel you on the 'prestige' version of something...I can go on and on about it, but I will spare everyone the rant, LOL. But I agree so hard with you on that one, lol.
Hmmm...As someone living in EU, I'd can say, yes. I think East Asians are shit at discussing or even seeing the colourism problem. East Asian countries have very, very toxic beauty standards and well, popstars are still bleaching their skin like crazy in order to 'fit' a beauty standard. There are some Koreans popstars with a darker complexion and a slightly bigger body and the comments they get from a certain corner of the internet...🫠🫠🫠 And to be frankly, I don't see the needle moving very fast into a direction that's more inclusive...
I think??? East Asians are slowly getting used to the idea that 'foreigners' (non East Asians) can come in all shades and forms but among East Asians themselves? Not so much...if that make sense? I'm lighter skinned than my cousins in Spain and they always, always get comments in the veins of 'stay out of the sun, so you don't get tanned' etc etc... There are also docu's on youtube about how Black people experience living in East Asian countries, if you're interested in that?
I have noticed that Korean labels are paying attention to what is being discussed in the US? The recent ones that I can remember is when RM and Suga changed lyrics of a song because the word 'I/me' in Korean sounds very much like the n-word and because they were performing in an American city, they changed it up, so everyone would be able to enjoy the song. Blackpink had a music video with elements appropriated from the Hindu culture and after the criticism, they removed those elements. I remember people criticising the way the Pakistani character was portrayed in Squid game in certain Asian communities...I can't say how widespread these kind actions are, but I can imagine, if the labels are economically incentivized enough, that eventually, someday they gonna debut members with a darker skin...
Okay so the skin color discussion is not really happening from your perspective. As much as Black Americans (and South Asians) have frank conversations about skin color, I've still heard the "don't get darker" phrase so basically we're all infected with the unrealistic expectations imposed by colonialism propaganda. Sigh.
Is Korean similar to Mandarin like Portuguese is to Spanish? Mandarin has a word (if I recall correctly it means 'look') that also sounds like the same derogatory word. Kamau Bell tweeted or said he heard some East Asian kids using the n-word, and all I wanted to ask is if they were speaking English or an East Asian language. Another word for your posterior or rear end is fanny in the US, but in Australia it's not that at all. A fanny pack is not a harmless word in Australia. Language can be a rollercoaster.
I've seen the 'Being Black in *insert country*' videos and blogs. I didn't really have a noticeable issue, but I was mostly with other foreigners. In the USA, have I been followed by East Asian proprietors? Yup. After going to cities in East Asia, I understood that it was possibly a combination of bias and culture. Yet, I don't recall being followed in East Asia. Even when I found out how to get to the less western accommodating areas, I didn't have that experience. It wasn't long term so I can't compare or invalidate those experiences. I recall having a conversation with a white woman (American ) who was trying to invalidate another Black American woman's experience by trying to get me to agree that the racism the Black woman said she experienced wasn't racism. I'm still tired from trying to gingerly (no time for tears and tantrums in a foreign country) get her to understand that I can't speak on something I have not seen, but it's exists so it's not for me to say she's incorrect. Sometimes it's read wrong, but sometimes it's dead on. She chose to stick with her invalidation. I kinda hope she got the telling off she was ordering. Pffft.
I might be a skewing the data because it's happened more than once that an East Asian person assumed I was Blasian. Dunno if that would change anything. Then again, I'm American. That accent and blue passport has people treating you differently in various countries (it's a tiny tiny tiny glimpse into what it's like being white). Whatever the bias at the checkpoint, the blue passport makes a difference lots of times (for me). Another Black American with different features or on a different day with my exact face might have a different experience. Levels of conventional attractiveness also skew the data. The only concern I had was my hair.
There are SO MANY rules for broadcast on the weekly Korean music shows. If a dance is too suggestive or violent, they’ll want a modification; otherwise it’s banned.
As for dating, they don’t need to be chaste but they do have to appear available (to their fans). Privacy and personal lives also seem to be big cultural mores so even though they may all date secretly, no one hears about it until they’re ready to announce it and/or someone breaks it.
Okay, that makes sense. I'm not saying that we don't need any of the groups being churned out of their music machine. I was thinking about it from a western perspective regarding groups. Obviously, the Kpop wave is here and holding court. Appearing available to the fan base is similar to what western pop singers used to do, but it feels like this Korean iteration has a stronger force because their fan base feels worldwide. There's crossover, and there's the cultural reach within their language speakers that live everywhere. Except, everyone in so many other languages are singing along. With their expectations of behavior while amassing their level of fame should be studied. They mimic a Western style, but have eclipsed anything ever done in Western music regarding groups. I'd watch that documentary.
As much as as I agree about borrowing as far as wearing Black American culture as a costume (not specific to East Asia, we get it on our shores i.e. Iggy Azalea erroneously validated by TI if I recall correctly), East Asian cultural practice and aesthetics are constantly co-opted for commercial gain all over western society. Had Lainey not discussed mahjong's origins, I would have never questioned it. I thought it was an old white lady game. At the broadest, an old lady game. Namaste has been basic-fied and removed of whatever meaning. Latin and indigenous cultures have been mined in a myriad of flagrant ways. I guess they're using the western method which when mirrored feels different. I am still not a fan of Black American mimicry, but outside of that it's really an impressive show of what was never massively capitalized because you can't keep growing if you only want to center certain shades of skin. Although, I don't know enough about Kpop aesthetic to speak on the hierarchy of skin color and if the groups mimic western bias.
The NewJeans choreography was already seen last year when Taehyung/V joined them in a video bit.
Thatnks Sarah for your response Re: Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. But I have a follow up.
If the case is, that these movies are getting a Prime release instead, is there some shame about that? Some clause that means Prime can't tell anyone that is what happening? Because I have a Prime subscription and there is zero indication that it is coming. Not in their 'coming soon' section, not under search results. The only inkling there is a Prime release coming if I google, is a reddit thread.
Why hamstring yourself on promotion like that? Or rather allow yourself to be hamstrung? I know NZ is a piddly market, but surely the UK has some weight? Or am I just colonially blinded?
I don't think it's shame, so much as they probably haven't set the digital release yet. They won't put it on streaming before it's out of theaters, because the minute something hits digital you have a pristine 4K copy on pirate sites. I bet when they set a release date, you'll see it pop up in marketing.
OMG the face mask description. 😂 I can totally imagine it.
And all the behind the scenes is amazing. It sucks that someone can gain followers by lying their asses off, but Jacek’s comment is unfortunately spot on.
Bowen and Lily dream team ❤️
Also in other news Jin is coming out of the military this month. Not of course one of the heavy hitters of BTS but can’t wait to see him back
Thanks, Lainey! I love your points about junkets and long form interviews, and I love that LMM was such an organic interview. I missed whatever you’re referring to about him maybe being an asshole? 😕
I don’t think she was saying there *is* an incident out there. But just that, with celebrities, we have to admit that we all see these people in different phases and different ways. While her experience with LMM was great and he was kind/considerate, she is also making space if someone else has had a different experience.