Nicole Kidman's awkward campaign, Gwyneth's influence on Apple's reputation, what did Elordi do and who have we flipped on over the years, Slow Horse efficiency, why all the movie credits, and more
I'd forgotten about the catalyst for the Elordi scorn, so thanks for the reminder, and also for saying this:
"And it’s the disrespect for the audience of those movies that he’s disparaging which is mostly girls and women."
This is such a pet peeve of mine. There was some bro journalist in the Times the other day who said that he wouldn't have watched Wicked if his job didn't require it, because "it looked like it was for teenage girls."
So WHAT? I guess that means that anything geared towards this age group is frothy, vapid, bubblegummy, and ultimately pointless?
It kind of reminds me of Jonathan "Overrated" Franzen snidely insulting Oprah's Book Club so many moons ago by saying that his work was loftier than the Club's usual fare - as if authors like Morrison and Kingsolver churn out banalities. Okay.
Or how about John Kerry saying that Trump has the temperament of a teenage girl? I hope his wife and daughters gave him sooooooo much shit for that one. I'd have flicked peas at his face at the next family dinner if I were them.
It also reminds me of the 345345345 times I've heard guys speak disparagingly to each other by using feminization as an insult: "don't be such a girl", "you throw like a girl","you're whining like a girl", etc.
Anyway, I hate that, and now I hate Jacob Elordi as much as he should be hated. Thank you!
Same. I’m a broken record raising boys who play sports that being likened to a girl IS NOT AN INSULT unless you think there’s something wrong with being a girl and then I maintain an uncomfortable amount of eye contact until they agree there isn’t.
Did anyone force Elordi to take these supposedly gutter roles? If he’s so talented and devoted to his “craft”, why’s he do them in the first place?! What a knob.
Babygirl is one of my favourite films of 2024 and I really hope Nicole pulls an Oscar nom out of the bag. She's truly excellent in it: funny, vulnerable, terrified, horny, and baffled by her own desires. It's a fascinatingly meta turn too: the perennial ice goddess getting brought down and loving every second of it (there's even a joke in it about the lead having had too many fillers, which feels like Nicole poking fun at herself.) And it is indeed super sexy: like Secretary if the two leads in that film had no effing idea what they were actually doing. It's a busy year for Best Actress though. She'll have to fight for that spot and take on Angelina, Cynthia, Sofia, Mikey, Pamela, Demi, Marianne, Amy, Tilda, and too many others to count.
Lainey thank you for reminding us all why Jacob Elordi sucks. ALSO, when I was reading your response about him and you listed how he's not that special in denigrating the young women who got him where he is I thought to myself "Harry Styles didn't do that" and low and behold a little further down you are gossip genieing him with Sabrina! I LOVE IT!
But truly, Harry won a lot of points with me all those years ago when he gave that interview just before his first solo album came out and not only refused to disparage his time in a boy band or teenage girls, but actually praised teenage girls and called them what they are...tastemakers!!
I started loving him for real after that, and also always will because he's the inspirtation for my two favorite Taylor Swift songs, Out of the Woods and Style. Thank you for your service Harry.
I’m not convinced Style is about Harry. I think she used that title as a diversion from the fact it’s actually about Healy. I am no Swiftie, but if you listen to TTPD and then some of the 1989 stuff, there are through lines I can’t help but notice.
Listen…I’m not saying you’re wrong but I AM saying I have to plug my ears and go La La La La La because I cannot believe my number one favorite Taylor swift song is about ratty Healy. I will continue to live in ignorant bliss 😂😂
Lainey, sorry you had to deal with a disgusting DM. How DARE he! I imagine you’ve had to deal with your fair share of creeps. I like to think (hope?) that The Squawk is a safe space for your entire team.
The Harry Styles rec for Sabrina Carpenter is perfect. Sabrina is in Taylor Swift's stable right now, so there's the Swiftology connection and potential drama and laffs of it all, and also...Harry is a dog lol and totally would at least hook up with Sabrina. It's both a delicious AND realistic Gossip Genie!
Can we gossip genie a Variety round table with Ali Wong and Nicole Kidman. I’m now longing for what Lainey describes as an honest conversation about how they’ve both addressed sex and desire and guilt and shame in their work, through their art.
I haven’t read the entire mailbag I just have to say that I loved that interview with Nicole Kidman. I’ve been thinking about it and her ever since. How she can go from talking about thoughts on ugly orgasms to saying oh gosh or oh golly in response and have both seem genuine. I’ve always admired her as an actor and how well she balances being super famous and seemingly accessible and yet quite private really. She gives a great interview without giving herself away. I really love her as an artist and celebrity.
I (and daughter) both agree that girl code dictates Sab confer with Taylor. You just do. Period. It's a sign of respecting the other's feelings, even if there are absolutely none. Still like the idea, though. Harry would be putty in her hands.
The mentions of both Harry Styles and Jacob Elordi reminded me of what first sold me on Harry. Early into going solo a Rolling Stone interviewer set him up to disavow his boy band days now that he’s A Serious Musician. His response was so thoughtful and respectful of his first fan base it kinda knocked me out:
“Who's to say that young girls who like pop music — short for popular, right? — have worse musical taste than a 30-year-old hipster guy? That's not up to you to say. Music is something that's always changing. There's no goal posts. Young girls like the Beatles. You gonna tell me they're not serious?”
He even went on from there! Contrast that with Jacob’s response, I mean, lol ok cool guy
Before seeing Conclave at AMC last weekend, there were THREE separate commercials for AMC. "We've got great sound," they said; "look at these lasers," they said. What about the movie, I said. You've already got me in your seat! I already bought the ticket! Let's get to it!
Second It's Okay to Not be Okay as a great recommendation. Would like to put in a word for Twenty Five Twenty One, which I love without having ever watched the last episode, because it doesn't have a traditional happy ending though everyone is perfectly okay and you know that from the very beginning. The lead actress is extraordinary in 25 21, I totally didn't recognize her from The Handmaiden and was like, wow, where did they find this perfect 16 yo. She was 30 when they made it!
Also would like to put in a word for YOU ARE MY GLORY, a Chinese drama that is extraordinarily charming and lovely to watch. I read the web novel it was based on when I first started reading Chinese web novels and was very fond of it. And then watched the adaptation when I had Covid and was falling asleep at 5 in the afternoon and waking up at 10pm. I still think rather longingly of those midnight hours when I binged episode after episode of the show and was just completely absorbed in the story, the beauty of the lead characters, and their terrific chemistry.
I love the shipping of Sabrina and Harry, and was surprised that you didn't mentioned the fact that Taylor and Harry dated! Presumably this would be an issue as Sabrina and Taylor are close....does she need to run it by her? Does Taylor embrace Harry as a friend the way she did with Joe Jonas before his divorce? Does she use their relationship as another way to show how benevolent and accepting she is? Or does it cause another friendship rift? All purely speculation and for fun, but mannn it must be complicated running in these social circles. I would ship her with Timothee if he were single.
My educated guess is that Taylor wouldn't care if Sabrina slept with/dated Harry Styles (it was 12 years ago) but I also believe that the power dynamic of Sabrina's relationship with Taylor would make her feel like she has to ask permission from Taylor, and she shouldn't have to because again it was 12 years ago. Tik Tok would be stupid and invent drama and conspiracies that Taylor was bothered, of course. Harry Styles really stays out of dodge when he's not touring and in an album promo cycle; he literally pounds the streets without security and drives around Europe alone or with one friend. He also isn't on the celeb social scene in general, and doesn't frequent New York enough to cross paths with Taylor at Via Carota or whatever. I think they live completely different lives in completely different geographic places, so a friendship is unlikely to occur. But I can see Taylor definitely making a show of going out to dinner alone with Sabrina after the news of Sab dating Harry dropped, that's realistic. While Taylor is developmentally stagnated and her emotional maturity is probably weakened by fame and power, I genuinely think Taylor is more emotionally mature than people give her credit for.
I love how you write about her like a concerned guidance counselor, LOL.
I just keep going back to the fact that she's about to hit her 35th year, and she's in a happy and committed relationship. She's got 10 years on Sabrina. I think that a good friend dating an ex might bug a much younger person, but at this point, I imagine that she really wouldn't care.
Taylor confirmed the stagnation in her Miss Americana doc, which impressed me at the time and still does now. She is my sister: I love her and she is annoying!
Thanks for answering my question! I had not read that article, and to be honest, I am very clueless when it comes to gen Z actors, except maybe for Timothy because my best friend LOVES him, from very early on. The quote is so insufferable though, condescending, and missonistic. Ugh. For his sake, I hope he matures. I also remember how Ariana's reaction to the tragic events in her Manchester concert seem to have been a turning point. It is nice to think about those positive changes since so many times it is actually the opposite, where some of our favorites end up being terrible people.
I absolutely second the recommendation of Vincenzo as a great K-drama choice, Lainey recommended it to me when I asked for K-drama suggestions a year or so ago and I freaking LOVED it! So dark, so funny, such great characters and one of the best plot twists ever. Really glad I decided to hang back on When The Phone Rings now but am reminded I should check out Lovely Runner.
Love reading recommendations esp for Kdrama, steers me in the right direction. Just want to add that one of my favorites FAVORITES for Kdrama is Reborn Rich even though parts of it (especially the beginning) requires you to suspend dis-belief, a bit of the supernatural to initiate the story but I bought it. Wonderful actors throughout Song Joong-Ki is so good, just mesmerizing. Some of the family drama is a bit overboard but sort of in character for those characters. I love Kdrama and even though it's fiction you're able to pick up the cultural history of a country different from your own. And respect it.
I'd forgotten about the catalyst for the Elordi scorn, so thanks for the reminder, and also for saying this:
"And it’s the disrespect for the audience of those movies that he’s disparaging which is mostly girls and women."
This is such a pet peeve of mine. There was some bro journalist in the Times the other day who said that he wouldn't have watched Wicked if his job didn't require it, because "it looked like it was for teenage girls."
So WHAT? I guess that means that anything geared towards this age group is frothy, vapid, bubblegummy, and ultimately pointless?
It kind of reminds me of Jonathan "Overrated" Franzen snidely insulting Oprah's Book Club so many moons ago by saying that his work was loftier than the Club's usual fare - as if authors like Morrison and Kingsolver churn out banalities. Okay.
Or how about John Kerry saying that Trump has the temperament of a teenage girl? I hope his wife and daughters gave him sooooooo much shit for that one. I'd have flicked peas at his face at the next family dinner if I were them.
It also reminds me of the 345345345 times I've heard guys speak disparagingly to each other by using feminization as an insult: "don't be such a girl", "you throw like a girl","you're whining like a girl", etc.
Anyway, I hate that, and now I hate Jacob Elordi as much as he should be hated. Thank you!
Same. I’m a broken record raising boys who play sports that being likened to a girl IS NOT AN INSULT unless you think there’s something wrong with being a girl and then I maintain an uncomfortable amount of eye contact until they agree there isn’t.
This is where we need GIFs although Andrea's eye contact sounds scary here.
PERFECT. I like you! <3
Did anyone force Elordi to take these supposedly gutter roles? If he’s so talented and devoted to his “craft”, why’s he do them in the first place?! What a knob.
Babygirl is one of my favourite films of 2024 and I really hope Nicole pulls an Oscar nom out of the bag. She's truly excellent in it: funny, vulnerable, terrified, horny, and baffled by her own desires. It's a fascinatingly meta turn too: the perennial ice goddess getting brought down and loving every second of it (there's even a joke in it about the lead having had too many fillers, which feels like Nicole poking fun at herself.) And it is indeed super sexy: like Secretary if the two leads in that film had no effing idea what they were actually doing. It's a busy year for Best Actress though. She'll have to fight for that spot and take on Angelina, Cynthia, Sofia, Mikey, Pamela, Demi, Marianne, Amy, Tilda, and too many others to count.
Lainey thank you for reminding us all why Jacob Elordi sucks. ALSO, when I was reading your response about him and you listed how he's not that special in denigrating the young women who got him where he is I thought to myself "Harry Styles didn't do that" and low and behold a little further down you are gossip genieing him with Sabrina! I LOVE IT!
But truly, Harry won a lot of points with me all those years ago when he gave that interview just before his first solo album came out and not only refused to disparage his time in a boy band or teenage girls, but actually praised teenage girls and called them what they are...tastemakers!!
I started loving him for real after that, and also always will because he's the inspirtation for my two favorite Taylor Swift songs, Out of the Woods and Style. Thank you for your service Harry.
Janelle, I was going to post something similar about Harry! His response will forever be the gold standard for me.
I’m not convinced Style is about Harry. I think she used that title as a diversion from the fact it’s actually about Healy. I am no Swiftie, but if you listen to TTPD and then some of the 1989 stuff, there are through lines I can’t help but notice.
Listen…I’m not saying you’re wrong but I AM saying I have to plug my ears and go La La La La La because I cannot believe my number one favorite Taylor swift song is about ratty Healy. I will continue to live in ignorant bliss 😂😂
Lainey, sorry you had to deal with a disgusting DM. How DARE he! I imagine you’ve had to deal with your fair share of creeps. I like to think (hope?) that The Squawk is a safe space for your entire team.
The Harry Styles rec for Sabrina Carpenter is perfect. Sabrina is in Taylor Swift's stable right now, so there's the Swiftology connection and potential drama and laffs of it all, and also...Harry is a dog lol and totally would at least hook up with Sabrina. It's both a delicious AND realistic Gossip Genie!
Can we gossip genie a Variety round table with Ali Wong and Nicole Kidman. I’m now longing for what Lainey describes as an honest conversation about how they’ve both addressed sex and desire and guilt and shame in their work, through their art.
Wouldn’t that be an interview orgasm?
Yes. Yes, it would.
I haven’t read the entire mailbag I just have to say that I loved that interview with Nicole Kidman. I’ve been thinking about it and her ever since. How she can go from talking about thoughts on ugly orgasms to saying oh gosh or oh golly in response and have both seem genuine. I’ve always admired her as an actor and how well she balances being super famous and seemingly accessible and yet quite private really. She gives a great interview without giving herself away. I really love her as an artist and celebrity.
I (and daughter) both agree that girl code dictates Sab confer with Taylor. You just do. Period. It's a sign of respecting the other's feelings, even if there are absolutely none. Still like the idea, though. Harry would be putty in her hands.
The mentions of both Harry Styles and Jacob Elordi reminded me of what first sold me on Harry. Early into going solo a Rolling Stone interviewer set him up to disavow his boy band days now that he’s A Serious Musician. His response was so thoughtful and respectful of his first fan base it kinda knocked me out:
“Who's to say that young girls who like pop music — short for popular, right? — have worse musical taste than a 30-year-old hipster guy? That's not up to you to say. Music is something that's always changing. There's no goal posts. Young girls like the Beatles. You gonna tell me they're not serious?”
He even went on from there! Contrast that with Jacob’s response, I mean, lol ok cool guy
Before seeing Conclave at AMC last weekend, there were THREE separate commercials for AMC. "We've got great sound," they said; "look at these lasers," they said. What about the movie, I said. You've already got me in your seat! I already bought the ticket! Let's get to it!
Look at these lasers 😂😂😂
Does anyone else see Sabrina and Timmy?🙈 The gossip implications would be stratospheric
Second It's Okay to Not be Okay as a great recommendation. Would like to put in a word for Twenty Five Twenty One, which I love without having ever watched the last episode, because it doesn't have a traditional happy ending though everyone is perfectly okay and you know that from the very beginning. The lead actress is extraordinary in 25 21, I totally didn't recognize her from The Handmaiden and was like, wow, where did they find this perfect 16 yo. She was 30 when they made it!
Also would like to put in a word for YOU ARE MY GLORY, a Chinese drama that is extraordinarily charming and lovely to watch. I read the web novel it was based on when I first started reading Chinese web novels and was very fond of it. And then watched the adaptation when I had Covid and was falling asleep at 5 in the afternoon and waking up at 10pm. I still think rather longingly of those midnight hours when I binged episode after episode of the show and was just completely absorbed in the story, the beauty of the lead characters, and their terrific chemistry.
I love the shipping of Sabrina and Harry, and was surprised that you didn't mentioned the fact that Taylor and Harry dated! Presumably this would be an issue as Sabrina and Taylor are close....does she need to run it by her? Does Taylor embrace Harry as a friend the way she did with Joe Jonas before his divorce? Does she use their relationship as another way to show how benevolent and accepting she is? Or does it cause another friendship rift? All purely speculation and for fun, but mannn it must be complicated running in these social circles. I would ship her with Timothee if he were single.
My educated guess is that Taylor wouldn't care if Sabrina slept with/dated Harry Styles (it was 12 years ago) but I also believe that the power dynamic of Sabrina's relationship with Taylor would make her feel like she has to ask permission from Taylor, and she shouldn't have to because again it was 12 years ago. Tik Tok would be stupid and invent drama and conspiracies that Taylor was bothered, of course. Harry Styles really stays out of dodge when he's not touring and in an album promo cycle; he literally pounds the streets without security and drives around Europe alone or with one friend. He also isn't on the celeb social scene in general, and doesn't frequent New York enough to cross paths with Taylor at Via Carota or whatever. I think they live completely different lives in completely different geographic places, so a friendship is unlikely to occur. But I can see Taylor definitely making a show of going out to dinner alone with Sabrina after the news of Sab dating Harry dropped, that's realistic. While Taylor is developmentally stagnated and her emotional maturity is probably weakened by fame and power, I genuinely think Taylor is more emotionally mature than people give her credit for.
"While Taylor is developmentally stagnated"
I love how you write about her like a concerned guidance counselor, LOL.
I just keep going back to the fact that she's about to hit her 35th year, and she's in a happy and committed relationship. She's got 10 years on Sabrina. I think that a good friend dating an ex might bug a much younger person, but at this point, I imagine that she really wouldn't care.
Taylor confirmed the stagnation in her Miss Americana doc, which impressed me at the time and still does now. She is my sister: I love her and she is annoying!
Thanks for answering my question! I had not read that article, and to be honest, I am very clueless when it comes to gen Z actors, except maybe for Timothy because my best friend LOVES him, from very early on. The quote is so insufferable though, condescending, and missonistic. Ugh. For his sake, I hope he matures. I also remember how Ariana's reaction to the tragic events in her Manchester concert seem to have been a turning point. It is nice to think about those positive changes since so many times it is actually the opposite, where some of our favorites end up being terrible people.
I also voted for aharry for Sabrina. That would be a horny pair!
I absolutely second the recommendation of Vincenzo as a great K-drama choice, Lainey recommended it to me when I asked for K-drama suggestions a year or so ago and I freaking LOVED it! So dark, so funny, such great characters and one of the best plot twists ever. Really glad I decided to hang back on When The Phone Rings now but am reminded I should check out Lovely Runner.
Love reading recommendations esp for Kdrama, steers me in the right direction. Just want to add that one of my favorites FAVORITES for Kdrama is Reborn Rich even though parts of it (especially the beginning) requires you to suspend dis-belief, a bit of the supernatural to initiate the story but I bought it. Wonderful actors throughout Song Joong-Ki is so good, just mesmerizing. Some of the family drama is a bit overboard but sort of in character for those characters. I love Kdrama and even though it's fiction you're able to pick up the cultural history of a country different from your own. And respect it.