Who 'Wicked' is for, covering Taylor Swift in Tuh-RON-oh, too much TV to watch, which stars would we hang with, and a great suggestion for a Squawk chat
Christie Mims asked a question that I straight up forgot to include in the mailbag about why it seems like production on TV shows is taking so long, such as Bridgerton taking 2 years to produce season 4.
My answer was in short, an influx of movie people into television production did not result in movie people adapting to faster TV production timelines, but instead slowing down those timelines for a more movie-like schedule, particularly around hour long dramas. Movie people are used to taking 1 to 2 years to produce their output, and when they shifted to making character driven dramas for TV, they just brought that timeline with them.
OK so I'm not going to hard-defend a bunch of privileged multi-millionaires playing an elitist game here, but there ARE some great personalities on the PGA tour (and now LIV, though until recently the defectors were mostly the PGA Tour assholes) . Google Tyrrell Hatton and how he self-deprecates himself on the golf course. It's comedy. And also some not so good moments. But lots of personality.
Hahaha I was raised on George Carlin, you will never convert me. But also at the end of the day it’s just sports, not liking golf can be its own snobbery. Funniest female golfers?
Lainey, please take time to really stay off screens for at least a week. I know this is your job but it's so important with a concussion. My daughter fell and hit her head last year and like you she felt better after a few days but then it was off and on, off and on. Headache, fatigue, irritability all would come and go over an entire month but never fully subside. When we finally went to a neurologist a month later they said she should have been totally off of screens and any reading for at least a week. If she had done that her recovery would have been much quicker. If you don't give your brain time to heal it will take that much longer to get back to normal.
Your readers will understand and you have amazing writers and editors that can help you out. Plus it's almost U.S. Thanksgiving which should be quiet. Take care of yourself!
Just echoing this! I can only imagine all your other commitments, but think of us Squawkers as a bunch of tweens at Tgiving who can entertain themselves in the basement for a few hours. We’re good!
Yes! I know at least 3 people who experienced concussions and the recovery had been far longer and harder than expected. Please do what you need to take care of yourself!!
"They said something to effect of, “If she’s overly dramatic and has mood swings, sudden outbursts, and or gets angry easily”. His response, “Well that’s not a very good gauge for us.” First of all, fuck him, and second…"
Lainey, I'm so glad you're on the upswing, but this DID make me laugh. Be nice, Jacek!!!
I'm not a musical theater kid, but I AM a fellow ultra-expressive, and one of my favorite things about the Show Your Work podcast was how you and Duana seemed to communicate in a lot of enunciated italics. No throwaway words! Every syllable matters! Give me that over some droning monotone any damn day.
Also, I really miss that podcast! I know y'all are busy, and The Squawk didn't exist back then. Just saying that I remember it with great fondness.
I agree about Cameron Diaz. Everyone loves her, right? Seriously. I don't know a single soul who doesn't have goodwill towards her.
But when it comes to celeb hangs, I'd want an older crowd. I'd want to hang with some unfiltered people who've seen some shit and are ready to talk some shit. Think Quincy Jones in that insane Vulture interview from a few years ago. I want THAT, but at a (catered) dinner party. Patti LuPone comes to mind. Let 'er rip, Patti. We all know you have opinions, and I want ALL of them. Candice Bergen has lived an EPIC life: born into Hollywood royalty, went out on a date with Trump (and later recalled that his suit matched his car and that he was a "douche"), lived with one of the targets of the Manson family, was vilified by our dumbest Vice President, etc. Add Dionne Warwick to that mix, too: Motown legend, cousin to Whitney, and unfiltered Twitter presence who gives zero fucks and just says whatever ("If that young man has Taylor's scarf then he should return it."). Oh, and Tim Curry. I just feel like he'd be a great addition to that crew, and I want to talk to him about The Worst Witch. I know that most people would have Rocky Horror questions, but not me. Tell me all about Diana Rigg and working with a baby Fairuza Balk.
I think if we ever did revive a podcast it would be in this space TBH. They were fun but SO hard to monetize unless you're at the very top of the podcast charts. But maybe a Squawk pod one day?
GOOD POINT. Thank you. You guys know far more about podcast production than I do, obviously, and if recording one isn't all that lucrative, I totally get why you'd focus on the other mediums that are. And they must take up a *shitton* of time to record and edit, too.
They were so fun to do but definitely super time consuming and for a while it was a cool "passion project" with the hope that they would turn into something meaningfully profitable but after a while you kinda go "OK, is this a good use of resources?". But also, when we signed off on that last episode of What's Your Drama we never intended to end it that day. It was just when it came to re-organizing for the next season, life was in the way, and then you go "is this worth the effort?" and we never re-started.
Forgot to add, if we're talking fantasy hangout with a celeb for gossip, then I want to throw it all the way back to Debbie Reynolds and Shelly Winters and Carrie Fisher - just think of all the stories across the generations.
If we're going more contemporary, then I want to sit next to Jamie Gertz - from Square Pegs to Less Than Zero to The Lost Boys to Ally McBeal to billionaire in real life, she has seen some things. I did a Square Pegs rewatch during the pandemic and that show was so fun, and definitely of its time - we didn't have to deal with cell phones, the internet, and social media in high school in the 80s.
Jami Gertz!! I wanted to be her in Lost Boys and Less than Zero. She was the ultimate cool chick to me. She was also good, but different in Twister. Then nothing. I guess she raised kids and married a millionaire. I've always wished she'd stick her toe back in, she was a great selfish rich girl, and her accent was cool. Acting with Jason Patric, RDJ, James Spader, Andrew MCarthy????
"During some thrusting exercises, she jokes that she used to do similar moves in a motel; at another point, she asks how many of the women have slept with Howard Hughes. (Several, including Reynolds, casually raise their hands.)"
And Lainey, please do be patient and conservative because concussions (with which I am sadly personally familiar) are nothing to mess with… take good care and hope you’re fully recovered in very short order 💕
Would love to know what you think, especially if you’ve already read the books?? I raced through the books and then went back and re-read more slowly just to savor the language and plotting; am a bit reluctant to watch in case it’s been diluted.
Re: concussion, I know anything medical brings 100 different opinions, but if your symptoms persist, please look into active concussion recovery.
We have just gone through 9mos of concussion recovery with my eldest. I had just assumed the traditional concussion protocols of rest for recovery. When it persisted we were referred to the concussion clinic only to find out that that isn't recommended anymore.
Active recovery involves getting daily low risk (of hitting your head again) cardio an leaning into activities that aggrevate the headaches (noisy, busy places, lots of thinking), but to a 3/10 pain. For my kid, that meant several 'brain breaks' a day where he went for short walks between classes.
Coincidentally, and to keep in the gossip, there is a This American Life episode where Sarah Polley talks about being derailed by a concussion and taking the long way to find out about this protocol
Have you read Sarah’s book of essays? It’s called Run Towards the Danger and one whole essay is about her concussion. It was FASCINATING! And the other essays were wonderful too. She’s a great writer
Lainey, so glad to hear that you're taking good care of yourself and that you sought immediate treatment after hitting your head - a must for anyone who sustains head trauma!
Dramatic reactions during the movie are fine, but doing a sing a long is just rude and you wouldn’t be allowed to do it when watching the musical. So theatre kid bs doesn’t fly for that kind of thing. And they already have a sing along in the works.
Also while technically F flat exists, it E usually.
Theaters don't even need to wait for an official sing-along version, just advertise certain screenings as sing alongs to get the people who want to do that in the same room and leave everyone else alone.
Re the dads wearing "I'm the dad" t-shirts to Taylor. I wonder if the US election and all the toxic men in my life are making me more easily aggravated, but my immediate reaction is WHY. To me that is toxic masculinity on display. I have a son. I took him to all kinds of "male" spaces - monster truck events, concerts, suit shopping, etc. I've never once felt the need to point that that I was there because "I'm the mom." I know that people might think those dads are sweet and cute, but I honestly just find it gross and it makes me angry. (Or ANGRIER, cuz I'd been angry for years.)
I went down a Vanderbilt rabbit hole last night after seeing Anderson Cooper speak at an event, and I mentioned that TO is a Vanderbilt descendent to my sister. She wasn't sure who Timothy Olyphant was by name and I spent probably 20 minutes looking for Sarah's article talking about his tennis/nepo daughters without finding it. THANK YOU for referencing it today! Just sent it to my sister. 😂
I completely agree that you gotta go into wicked 10000% ready for theater kid energy. I mean, this is a musical that has a fundamentally kind of DUMB main plot driver (the silencing of cute lil talking animals as a metaphor for oppression is SILLY, you have to admit). it's a genre that relies on a delicate balance of self-aware artifice and earnestness where you can be moved to tears by an actor singing about like, having sex with a puppet or something, and I think it's one of those things you have to just meet it where it is or sit it out entirely. I feel this way about marvel films--I don't "get" it at a core level, and maybe I never will. But genre fiction (and that's what both musicals and marvel films are) is not for everyone! And isn't that great?! I love musicals exactly because they are camp and corny and often very winking about their awareness of that fact. I saw wicked last night in a packed theater in NYC and it was a perfect experience, an audience of mostly women and queer people and lots of audible gasps and an uncontrollable and guttural "OH MY GOD" as soon as Jonathan Bailey cartwheeled his way into "dancing through life." (I think the film *mostly* toes that line between artifice and cornball well until the last ten minutes... at which point it swings wildly towards one end). everyone cheered after all the big numbers, and laughed at the parts that are, quite frankly, dumb. 10/10 experience!!!!!!!!
I have to agree about Marvel films. I feel this way about all superhero narratives in any genre, and Marvel films in particular. They are fantasy, and to enjoy fantasy you have to be able to suspend disbelief. I can do that for space/aliens, I can do it for magic/ghosts/etc., even some of the talking animal things, but I cannot muster it for superheroes. I don't know why. That's not to say that I begrudge anyone the pleasure they find in such movies or comics, etc, I just can't join them there.
Re: Taylor and traffic, I loved that the story that got the biggest traction and discussion locally was her police escort “shutting down” the Gardiner. Because even when you’re a megastar, here in Toronto, the only thing that actually matters is traffic.
Regarding kids wanting to "hang" with their parents - it is interesting but mine do...? I NEVER would have just hung out with my own parents. My daughter is 24; we went to the Cyndi Lauper concert together and had a great time. Just this past week she bought us two tickets to go see My Chemical Romance in San Francisco - when I asked her, wouldn't you rather do it with a friend? She said, I saw your 12 year old idol, now you can see mine! (She paid a pretty penny too - I can't believe how much concert tickets are these days.) Don't get me wrong, we still have the odd spat, but I will happily take any time my kids want to give me; someday they may have families of their own and won't be as available.
Maybe I am shallow but OMG does Timothy Olyphant only get better with age??? He might be the best looking man in Hollywood - why didn't he get the People cover????????????
Christie Mims asked a question that I straight up forgot to include in the mailbag about why it seems like production on TV shows is taking so long, such as Bridgerton taking 2 years to produce season 4.
My answer was in short, an influx of movie people into television production did not result in movie people adapting to faster TV production timelines, but instead slowing down those timelines for a more movie-like schedule, particularly around hour long dramas. Movie people are used to taking 1 to 2 years to produce their output, and when they shifted to making character driven dramas for TV, they just brought that timeline with them.
OK so I'm not going to hard-defend a bunch of privileged multi-millionaires playing an elitist game here, but there ARE some great personalities on the PGA tour (and now LIV, though until recently the defectors were mostly the PGA Tour assholes) . Google Tyrrell Hatton and how he self-deprecates himself on the golf course. It's comedy. And also some not so good moments. But lots of personality.
Hahaha I was raised on George Carlin, you will never convert me. But also at the end of the day it’s just sports, not liking golf can be its own snobbery. Funniest female golfers?
I would happily do just a skincare AMA, gossip is a bonus 😂
Oooh second. But also I want everyone’s recommendations.
Lainey, please take time to really stay off screens for at least a week. I know this is your job but it's so important with a concussion. My daughter fell and hit her head last year and like you she felt better after a few days but then it was off and on, off and on. Headache, fatigue, irritability all would come and go over an entire month but never fully subside. When we finally went to a neurologist a month later they said she should have been totally off of screens and any reading for at least a week. If she had done that her recovery would have been much quicker. If you don't give your brain time to heal it will take that much longer to get back to normal.
Your readers will understand and you have amazing writers and editors that can help you out. Plus it's almost U.S. Thanksgiving which should be quiet. Take care of yourself!
Just echoing this! I can only imagine all your other commitments, but think of us Squawkers as a bunch of tweens at Tgiving who can entertain themselves in the basement for a few hours. We’re good!
Yes! I know at least 3 people who experienced concussions and the recovery had been far longer and harder than expected. Please do what you need to take care of yourself!!
"They said something to effect of, “If she’s overly dramatic and has mood swings, sudden outbursts, and or gets angry easily”. His response, “Well that’s not a very good gauge for us.” First of all, fuck him, and second…"
Lainey, I'm so glad you're on the upswing, but this DID make me laugh. Be nice, Jacek!!!
I'm not a musical theater kid, but I AM a fellow ultra-expressive, and one of my favorite things about the Show Your Work podcast was how you and Duana seemed to communicate in a lot of enunciated italics. No throwaway words! Every syllable matters! Give me that over some droning monotone any damn day.
Also, I really miss that podcast! I know y'all are busy, and The Squawk didn't exist back then. Just saying that I remember it with great fondness.
I agree about Cameron Diaz. Everyone loves her, right? Seriously. I don't know a single soul who doesn't have goodwill towards her.
But when it comes to celeb hangs, I'd want an older crowd. I'd want to hang with some unfiltered people who've seen some shit and are ready to talk some shit. Think Quincy Jones in that insane Vulture interview from a few years ago. I want THAT, but at a (catered) dinner party. Patti LuPone comes to mind. Let 'er rip, Patti. We all know you have opinions, and I want ALL of them. Candice Bergen has lived an EPIC life: born into Hollywood royalty, went out on a date with Trump (and later recalled that his suit matched his car and that he was a "douche"), lived with one of the targets of the Manson family, was vilified by our dumbest Vice President, etc. Add Dionne Warwick to that mix, too: Motown legend, cousin to Whitney, and unfiltered Twitter presence who gives zero fucks and just says whatever ("If that young man has Taylor's scarf then he should return it."). Oh, and Tim Curry. I just feel like he'd be a great addition to that crew, and I want to talk to him about The Worst Witch. I know that most people would have Rocky Horror questions, but not me. Tell me all about Diana Rigg and working with a baby Fairuza Balk.
I think if we ever did revive a podcast it would be in this space TBH. They were fun but SO hard to monetize unless you're at the very top of the podcast charts. But maybe a Squawk pod one day?
GOOD POINT. Thank you. You guys know far more about podcast production than I do, obviously, and if recording one isn't all that lucrative, I totally get why you'd focus on the other mediums that are. And they must take up a *shitton* of time to record and edit, too.
They were so fun to do but definitely super time consuming and for a while it was a cool "passion project" with the hope that they would turn into something meaningfully profitable but after a while you kinda go "OK, is this a good use of resources?". But also, when we signed off on that last episode of What's Your Drama we never intended to end it that day. It was just when it came to re-organizing for the next season, life was in the way, and then you go "is this worth the effort?" and we never re-started.
Forgot to add, if we're talking fantasy hangout with a celeb for gossip, then I want to throw it all the way back to Debbie Reynolds and Shelly Winters and Carrie Fisher - just think of all the stories across the generations.
If we're going more contemporary, then I want to sit next to Jamie Gertz - from Square Pegs to Less Than Zero to The Lost Boys to Ally McBeal to billionaire in real life, she has seen some things. I did a Square Pegs rewatch during the pandemic and that show was so fun, and definitely of its time - we didn't have to deal with cell phones, the internet, and social media in high school in the 80s.
Jami Gertz!! I wanted to be her in Lost Boys and Less than Zero. She was the ultimate cool chick to me. She was also good, but different in Twister. Then nothing. I guess she raised kids and married a millionaire. I've always wished she'd stick her toe back in, she was a great selfish rich girl, and her accent was cool. Acting with Jason Patric, RDJ, James Spader, Andrew MCarthy????
You and me both. She got to be in the coolest movies with the cutest boys.
Shit definitely went down on The Square Pegs set, I would die to finally get to hear about it.
If anyone wants a quick read for a pick-me-up, this 2019 New Yorker piece by Rachel Syme on all 3 women (Debbie, Carrie, & Shelley), including a description of Debbie Reynolds' exercise video with Shelley Winters in it, wearing a sweatshirt that says "I'm Only Doing This For Debbie" and cracking jokes, is a delight: https://www.newyorker.com/culture/rabbit-holes/watching-shelley-winters-go-rogue-in-debbie-reynoldss-1983-exercise-video-do-it-debbies-way
"During some thrusting exercises, she jokes that she used to do similar moves in a motel; at another point, she asks how many of the women have slept with Howard Hughes. (Several, including Reynolds, casually raise their hands.)"
LOL! Thank you for posting this link!
Hell yeah AMA!
Ooooh an AMA would be awesome!!
And Lainey, please do be patient and conservative because concussions (with which I am sadly personally familiar) are nothing to mess with… take good care and hope you’re fully recovered in very short order 💕
Ya she had a couple of good days and then yesterday she was SOOOO tired. We're keeping it light the last couple of nights by mainlining Slow Horses.
Concussions are so tricky. Hoping now that it's the weekend that she/you can continue to take it easy.
Would love to know what you think, especially if you’ve already read the books?? I raced through the books and then went back and re-read more slowly just to savor the language and plotting; am a bit reluctant to watch in case it’s been diluted.
Re: concussion, I know anything medical brings 100 different opinions, but if your symptoms persist, please look into active concussion recovery.
We have just gone through 9mos of concussion recovery with my eldest. I had just assumed the traditional concussion protocols of rest for recovery. When it persisted we were referred to the concussion clinic only to find out that that isn't recommended anymore.
Active recovery involves getting daily low risk (of hitting your head again) cardio an leaning into activities that aggrevate the headaches (noisy, busy places, lots of thinking), but to a 3/10 pain. For my kid, that meant several 'brain breaks' a day where he went for short walks between classes.
Coincidentally, and to keep in the gossip, there is a This American Life episode where Sarah Polley talks about being derailed by a concussion and taking the long way to find out about this protocol
https://www.thisamericanlife.org/837/swim-towards-the-shark
Have you read Sarah’s book of essays? It’s called Run Towards the Danger and one whole essay is about her concussion. It was FASCINATING! And the other essays were wonderful too. She’s a great writer
No I hadn't heard of it. Thank you! It looks interesting.
I think about her essay about her concussion all the time. How the thing that healed her is the thing that seemed most counterintuitive.
Lainey, so glad to hear that you're taking good care of yourself and that you sought immediate treatment after hitting your head - a must for anyone who sustains head trauma!
Dramatic reactions during the movie are fine, but doing a sing a long is just rude and you wouldn’t be allowed to do it when watching the musical. So theatre kid bs doesn’t fly for that kind of thing. And they already have a sing along in the works.
Also while technically F flat exists, it E usually.
Theaters don't even need to wait for an official sing-along version, just advertise certain screenings as sing alongs to get the people who want to do that in the same room and leave everyone else alone.
Re the dads wearing "I'm the dad" t-shirts to Taylor. I wonder if the US election and all the toxic men in my life are making me more easily aggravated, but my immediate reaction is WHY. To me that is toxic masculinity on display. I have a son. I took him to all kinds of "male" spaces - monster truck events, concerts, suit shopping, etc. I've never once felt the need to point that that I was there because "I'm the mom." I know that people might think those dads are sweet and cute, but I honestly just find it gross and it makes me angry. (Or ANGRIER, cuz I'd been angry for years.)
I went down a Vanderbilt rabbit hole last night after seeing Anderson Cooper speak at an event, and I mentioned that TO is a Vanderbilt descendent to my sister. She wasn't sure who Timothy Olyphant was by name and I spent probably 20 minutes looking for Sarah's article talking about his tennis/nepo daughters without finding it. THANK YOU for referencing it today! Just sent it to my sister. 😂
I completely agree that you gotta go into wicked 10000% ready for theater kid energy. I mean, this is a musical that has a fundamentally kind of DUMB main plot driver (the silencing of cute lil talking animals as a metaphor for oppression is SILLY, you have to admit). it's a genre that relies on a delicate balance of self-aware artifice and earnestness where you can be moved to tears by an actor singing about like, having sex with a puppet or something, and I think it's one of those things you have to just meet it where it is or sit it out entirely. I feel this way about marvel films--I don't "get" it at a core level, and maybe I never will. But genre fiction (and that's what both musicals and marvel films are) is not for everyone! And isn't that great?! I love musicals exactly because they are camp and corny and often very winking about their awareness of that fact. I saw wicked last night in a packed theater in NYC and it was a perfect experience, an audience of mostly women and queer people and lots of audible gasps and an uncontrollable and guttural "OH MY GOD" as soon as Jonathan Bailey cartwheeled his way into "dancing through life." (I think the film *mostly* toes that line between artifice and cornball well until the last ten minutes... at which point it swings wildly towards one end). everyone cheered after all the big numbers, and laughed at the parts that are, quite frankly, dumb. 10/10 experience!!!!!!!!
I have to agree about Marvel films. I feel this way about all superhero narratives in any genre, and Marvel films in particular. They are fantasy, and to enjoy fantasy you have to be able to suspend disbelief. I can do that for space/aliens, I can do it for magic/ghosts/etc., even some of the talking animal things, but I cannot muster it for superheroes. I don't know why. That's not to say that I begrudge anyone the pleasure they find in such movies or comics, etc, I just can't join them there.
Re: Taylor and traffic, I loved that the story that got the biggest traction and discussion locally was her police escort “shutting down” the Gardiner. Because even when you’re a megastar, here in Toronto, the only thing that actually matters is traffic.
Regarding kids wanting to "hang" with their parents - it is interesting but mine do...? I NEVER would have just hung out with my own parents. My daughter is 24; we went to the Cyndi Lauper concert together and had a great time. Just this past week she bought us two tickets to go see My Chemical Romance in San Francisco - when I asked her, wouldn't you rather do it with a friend? She said, I saw your 12 year old idol, now you can see mine! (She paid a pretty penny too - I can't believe how much concert tickets are these days.) Don't get me wrong, we still have the odd spat, but I will happily take any time my kids want to give me; someday they may have families of their own and won't be as available.
Maybe I am shallow but OMG does Timothy Olyphant only get better with age??? He might be the best looking man in Hollywood - why didn't he get the People cover????????????