Mailbag for November 3, 2023

Reactions to Matthew Perry, lured by the mess of Bravo, Swift-Kelce PR learning curve, 1989 and Taylor's Version, obsessing over Greta Lee, representation in cinema, and eat that fat!

(Photos: Bravo, NBC, Eric Charbonneau/ John Salangsang/ Shutterstock)

Dear Squawkers,

Something I’ve been thinking about all week and can’t quite articulate the way I want to is how there was almost the immediate anticipation that people had for a statement or some kind of response from the cast of Friends about the death of Matthew Perry. I was seeing posts online to the effect of – it’s going to break my heart when I hear what Jennifer Aniston says about Matthew Perry, or Courteney Cox, or Matt LeBlanc, or all of them together.

It's yet another example of how celebrity gossip is more than just being nosy about the lives of famous people, why gossip is so much deeper than a lot of people give it credit for, especially in these times, as technology has made parasocial relationships that much more intense. For those who watched Friends when it was originally on the air, that was a weekly appointment, an every Thursday connection for ten years. And for a new generation discovering Friends on streaming, they were connecting to Chandler, Monica, Joey, Phoebe, Ross, and Rachel not just on a daily basis but sometimes on an ALL DAY basis.

So I understand why there were people out there who, like, expected a statement from the cast. Almost as though it was something that was owed to them – because they’ve spent so much time with them. If you count up all the hours spent watching and rewatching, think about what that amounts to, and what that does to your brain, the familiarity that builds up over time, creating an intimacy that isn’t necessarily fake, but also isn’t entirely real.

And yet…

That expectation of them, it can also feel like a demand. A demand to mourn collectively, a demand to share in their grief …which… I mean… is it intrusive?

To release a statement to the public, when they’ve just lost their brother, a person they knew in real life, in ways that we will never, ever, ever truly understand – like, what if they didn’t want to? What if “let’s craft a statement” just wasn’t on their list of things they wanted to do while processing the trauma of learning that their beloved had just died?!

Please don’t get me wrong, I’m not here to judge those who were waiting for that statement because, like I said, these are parasocial times, and as a culture reporter, I’m not ever going to diminish the profound influence and impact that celebrities have on the rest of us. This has been a career thesis for me and, tragically, Matthew Perry’s passing has illuminated it. All I’m saying is… it’s just so weird, participating in and observing this space that exists somewhere between imagination and reality.

Sorry, that was such a sad start to this week’s mailbag. But if you have thoughts on this, please do share in the comments. Now to your questions.

Question from Tracy:

I'd like to know how the Vanity Fair piece on the housewives series is being received. It is not what I was expecting it to be. They profiled some very problematic housewives behaviour and concerns, but it wasn't as behind the scenes as I was expecting. I thought there would be more about the 'machinery' behind getting these shows to air including how the stars are recruited, hired, coached etc.

Lainey’s Answer:

I don’t know what it’s like in your feed but in my feed and in my work circles, the way it’s being received is… that it’s not that big of a deal? I’m not trying to say that these people are monsters, but I am saying that we are all monsters.

Stephanie has been writing extensively about reality stars and their experiences, she has a post today over on the main site about the fallout from the Vanity Fair piece – she has talked about how complicated her feelings are about these Bravo revelations, and was feeling uneasy even before these last few months as the Bravo ecosystem is increasingly being interrogated; Stephanie recently mentioned that she might be rethinking how she’s engaging with these shows. Like she might not be able to stomach it anymore, and this is someone who spent her coins—many coins!—on BravoCon last year.

The Real Housewives of New Jersey (Photo: Bravo)

I’m not convinced every Bravo fan is like Stephanie, though. Speaking of BravoCon, it’s happening this weekend. Remember last year, how much of BravoCon went viral? How it was practically a stampede? How the whole thing seemed at times like a frenzy akin to a boy band concert? Vanity Fair published their piece on the Housewives specifically this week because it’s BravoCon time. And yet… by the time Saturday rolls around, or even maybe today, as it all gets started, are people even going to be talking about Vanity Fair anymore? Or will Instagram and TikTok be full of whatever fuckery that keeps feeding the Bravo machine?

I don’t watch any Bravo shows. I’m not saying this with superiority, it’s just not my thing. I’ve also never watched a single episode of Kardashians. But while I don’t know the specific storylines and characters, I feel confident in saying that a big part of what attracts the audience, and a big part of why they stay is…

Mess.

Mess is the main character of Bravo. Mess is the Bravo superpower.

What is the psychology that happens when you watch a thing specifically for the mess onscreen, and you find out there’s a bigger mess offscreen? Are you already numb to the mess?

Bravo has clearly exploited the audience’s thirst for mess. In doing so, in being lured by the mess, and seeing these people only in these messy conditions, or hoping for them to get into messier situations, the actual people that are being watched almost become dehumanised, don’t they? And when they are dehumanised already, how much do people really care what their working conditions are?

Look, I’m not trying to make anyone feel shitty about enjoying the Housewives. This goes back, in a way, to the parasocial relationships I was talking about earlier, but maybe in the reverse direction. The Friends cast played fictional characters who were humanised by their storylines and by their performances. And that’s why people cared about them in a very real way. The Real Housewives are playing versions of themselves that are dehumanised by their storylines and by their performances. Do people care about them the same way?

Question from Jojo Coco:

Travis Kelce’s PR person reposting a photo where Taylor Swift’s face is covered by a clown emoji. Is the PR person really bad at her job or was there intentional shade? Also, if you’re the less-famous half of a new heatscore couple, what kind of upleveling is expected in terms of PR? Like, there must be some coordination between Taylor’s people and Travis’, right? Or do her people really just... take over?

Lainey’s Answer:

I would like to give Travis Kelce’s publicist, Pia, the benefit of the doubt. Reposting a story is so easy, literally tapping your phone twice, that sometimes people really just don’t think before they go for it. Was it an amateur mistake? Of course. But Instagram does weird things to people. Attention does weird things to people. It was her birthday. She was chuffed off her birthday hype. And she couldn’t wait to flex to her followers how many people were celebrating her birthday.

That said, has her job description suddenly become exponentially more advanced? Is she perhaps not prepared for the kind of professional skill acceleration that is now required of her? 100%.

Then again, the seasoned professionals aren’t perfect either. Taylor is enjoying a big PR high right now – and she’s earned it because she’s played it beautifully. And that’s one of the bonuses of good PR: good PR makes people forget bad PR. Taylor’s bad PR is way back in your gossip memory these days because you love the flavour of the good shit too much. But there was a time, you’ll recall, when a lot of us were eyerolling her.

Taylor at the 'Taylor Swift: The Eras Tour' premiere in Los Angeles, California on October 11, 2023 (Photo: John Salangsang/Shutterstock)

We eyerolled her when she constantly played the victim instead of the boss. We eyerolled the kissing on the rocks at her beach house in Rhode Island with Tom Hiddleston because, girl, the paps aren’t just randomly hanging out in Rhode Island. We eyerolled the “I would very much like to be excluded from this narrative” comment. Maybe her publicist, Tree Paine, who is a pretty towering figure in the Taylor Swift Universe unto herself, advised her not to respond and Taylor hit the override button. But my point is, there is a learning curve, even for the most powerful in the industry and their powerful representatives.

It's been ten years since Beyoncé headlined the Super Bowl in New Orleans. Her performance was so fucking amazing the electricity went out. And then came the incident with the photos. Beyoncé was a warrior that night, and photos were taken of her looking like a badass with badass facial expressions, but then her publicist emailed Buzzfeed because some of the shots were unflattering and it became a whole thing. Would Yvette Noel-Schure, Beyoncé’s longtime publicist who is just as formidable as Tree Paine, do the same thing today, a decade later? Think of how much higher Beyoncé has risen in that time. She rose, and everyone else around her rose, too. That’s what meaningful success looks like.

So, to go back to Pia, given that she now presumably has access to Tree Paine, a proper mentor if there ever was one, sure she fucked up. But she has so much access now to improve. That is, if the Swifties let her. 

Sarah’s answer:

I only ever appreciate the inimitable Tree Paine more and more.

Question from Jessica:

I believe 1989 used to be Lainey’s favorite Taylor Swift album so I’d love to know if she’s listened to Taylor’s Version and if so, how does she think “Style” holds up against the original? Would also love to know her take on the current Swift/Styles dynamic! Thank you!

Lainey’s Answer:

The new “Style” is fine. Fine enough that I’m willing to convert to it and switch it out on my playlists so that I don’t have to support whoever it is that’s making money off her masters now. I can’t say that it’s better than the original, but then again, I’m not a Swiftie where I’m doing CSI on every little difference on each track.

The song that I do think is an improvement over the original is “Shake It Off”. I still think it’s a terrible song, but the version on 1989 (TV) is less terrible. Same goes for “Bad Blood”. Still one of the worst songs in her catalogue, but maybe not as intolerable now.

You know which song I think is superior on Taylor’s Version than on the OG though? “Clean.” I was already super into that song but now I’m fucking with it hard.

Question from Myra:

I am obsessed with Greta Lee. I love to see fame happen later in life. Where did she come from and when can we see more of her??

Lainey’s Answer:

Same! WE LOVE GRETA LEE! And if you haven’t seen Past Lives… what are you waiting for? This is our award season darling! (I just spoke for Sarah there but I’m pretty sure she won’t fight me on this.) We are going to be hyping up Greta Lee so much in the coming weeks and months so, please, will you ride with us?

Greta Lee attends A24's PAST LIVES special screening in Los Angeles on June 5, 2023 (Photo: Eric Charbonneau/ Shutterstock)

Where did Greta Lee come from and where can we see more of her? Well, she’s on The Morning Show, and she is excellent on The Morning Show (the best dressed character on TMS too), so you can find her there. But. This is what award season is for, isn’t it? You should already be getting the answers to your questions without having to ask.  

A breakout star in an acclaimed film. And usually what happens is magazine profiles, interviews, all kinds of buzz and momentum and we all get to meet them, together, at the same time. We saw it with Scarlett Johansson after Lost in Translation. Jennifer Lawrence in Winter’s Bone. Carey Mulligan in An Education. Timothée Chalamet in Call Me By Your Name. You see what I’m getting at here?

We should be seeing it with Greta Lee. And also Lily Gladstone in Killers of the Flower Moon. In Lily’s case, she is actively not campaigning because of the strike – Lily’s no scab. But Past Lives has an interim waiver from SAG-AFTRA. Greta can campaign all she wants, and she is. But I don’t see the mainstream media jizzing all over her the way they have before…and… I don’t think I have to spell it out for you what the difference is.

I wrote about this last week in my post about Greta’s and the Past Lives Gotham nominations. Greta Lee should be getting the Andrea Riseborough treatment – and if she doesn’t get the Andrea Riseborough treatment, it proves that the people who called out the Andrea Riseborough scandal were right.

Sarah’s answer:

Later in life? Greta Lee is only 40! But yes, not an overnight sensation. Also, because The Morning Show is not a real show but an elaborate, Kominsky Method­-level prank, here are some other places you can see Greta Lee: Miracle Workers: Dark Ages, she has a recurring role as a princess. A great reason to go back and watch Miracle Workers (season 2). You can also find her in What We Do in the Shadows’ second season in the episode “Collaboration” as Celeste the familiar-vampire, and as Maxine in Russian Doll. The point is—we’ve been seeing Greta Lee for a while, but she only just got The Role that shows the full range of what she can do.

She also has a small part in the Michael Shannon Christmas Bigfoot Movie. I have one million questions for her.

Question from Rebekah:

I have a question about movies and where we draw the line about actors portraying cultures/identities other than their own. I think of Adam Driver in House of Gucci and now House of Ferrari, which drives me slightly bonkers (I'm half Italian half Polish/Ukrainian) but is that just a me thing? When can an actor portray someone they are not? Isn't that what acting is?

Sarah’s answer:

I have said this before and will say it again—ideally, anyone could play any role because everyone would have equal access to every role. But we don’t live in that world (yet), and many people from marginalized and under-represented communities still struggle to tell their own stories (case in point: Killers of the Flower Moon is centered on the white guys, not the Osage). That being the case, when people are from those marginalized and under-represented communities, the priority should be letting them tell their own stories.

I have heard some grumbling about Adam Driver, who has no known Italian roots, playing Italian characters but at the end of the day…there is no shortage of Italian and Italian-American representation in cinema, so for me, this doesn’t rise to the level of, say, straight people playing queer characters, or whitewashing roles (like Scarlett “I should be able to play a tree” Johansson in Ghost in the Shell).

I understand the irritation—plenty of Italian actors speak English, if the goal was casting an English-speaking actor—but it just isn’t equal to the egregious cases of (usually white, straight) actors playing outside their culture, and often because the role is blatant award bait.

Question from Charlotte:

The thing Lainey has taught me that has probably made the most actual difference in my day-to-day life is to eat the fat (from meat - it is usually delicious! I now wince when I see people cutting it off). Any other food-related wisdom we all need to know? Favourite soup recipe? Easiest dinner? (I have gathered that Cheetos dust shakers will be joining our salt and pepper in the future, but I'm not on board with that one yet.)

Lainey’s Answer:

Thank you so much for this food question because as you know, I love talking about food, I love fighting about food, I love telling people they are wrong about food, lol.

Here’s a food hack for those who don’t already know. It’s about your microwave, and how you can do it better. Everyone I have shared this with has thanked me. When you microwave leftovers, or whatever, cover the container or plate or bowl with a wet paper towel. This creates steam. And it will circulate the heat better so that you’re less likely to end up with food that’s hot on top but not in the middle. And the best part, it helps keep your food moist! Like that dry ass turkey you’ll be eating for days after American Thanksgiving. Works beautifully on pasta, too.

Also, do you ever buy packs of dried seaweed as a snack? My home is always stocked with a huge box. Pretty sure every grocery store has them now. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, it looks like this. Add them to your ramen. It elevates a lazy meal. Also add to whatever Thai takeout you might be having. What I do is layer them in a sheet at the bottom of a bowl, then immediately throw steamed rice on top, so it softens. And then each bite of green or red curry comes with a little seaweed. I promise you’ll love it.

Roasted Seaweed

Finally, my new favourite dip but I have to credit my friend Jess Allen who came up with it. Last weekend five us bunked down at a beach house for a sleepover and Jess made brunch the next morning and introduced us to her invention. This is for people who can handle some heat. There’s a restaurant that originated here in Toronto called Terroni, they now have locations in LA. One of their most popular products is the Pepperoncini Piccanti. Basically, hot chilli peppers chopped and soaked in oil. I’m sure there are other brands that make it but Terroni is the best. I add it to almost everything – salads, cabbage rolls, pasta, pierogies, ramen, mac and cheese…basically whatever I can think of to add it to, I do.

But I didn’t think of what Jess thought of: feta cheese. It’s that simple. All she did was dump some pepperoncini piccanti into a tub of feta cheese and mash it all together and it became the most radical new spread. I put it on avocado toast that morning, it blew my mind. Then I smothered it onto another piece of bread and added a poached egg on top and I think I might have started humping the corner of the table. Jess really fucking nailed it with this one.

Sarah’s answer:

I come from a cooking family, and I didn’t realize how lucky that makes me until I grew up and realized how many of my friends don’t know how to cook. So I am a big believer in box mixes and short-cut cheater recipes until you build your confidence in the kitchen, because it doesn’t happen overnight.

One short-cut I love that is for anyone nervous of baking and/or running short of time, get the big tub of cookie dough at the store, and an extra bag of chocolate chips (nuts optional), and put the softened dough into a mixer with the extra chips (and nuts, if using), and mix (on low) until the additional ingredients are combined into the dough. Then bake as per the instructions on the container. You will get chunky chocolate chip cookies people will think are homemade. For extra thick cookies, put the dough in balls on the cookie sheet, and chill for 10-15 minutes. The chilled dough won’t spread on the sheet, you’ll get thick cookies like in the bakery.

A step up from chunky cookies but still a no-bake recipe is one I LOVE at this time of year—fake cheesecake. This one is super easy, and best of all, it’s actually better after 24 hours in the fridge, so it’s a great make-ahead for the busy holidays.

1 graham cracker crust

8 oz cream cheese (softened)

1 can Eagle Brand sweetened condensed milk (this does not work with other condensed milk brands for some reason?)

1 tsp vanilla

1/3 cp lemon juice

21 oz canned pie filling (the big cans)

Beat the softened cream cheese until it is fluffy (use the paddle attachment on a stand mixer on medium-low, or use a hand mixer on medium), it should look like whipped cream. Add the condensed milk and beat thoroughly (on low to avoid splashes). Mix in the vanilla and lemon juice, again on low. The mixture should be smooth and medium thick. Pour into the pie crust. Cover the pie and put into the fridge for a minimum of 3 hours, or overnight. Put the pie filling into the fridge at the same time. After 3-4 hours, put the chilled pie filling on the cheesecake and serve, or let set up overnight. You can use any canned pie filling like cherries, strawberries, etc. The longer you can let this sit in the fridge, the better it will taste and the easier it is to dish and serve.

If you’re a medium-level baker, ask me about Nana’s Best Chocolate Cake. If you’re an advanced baker, we can talk Great-Granny Annie’s Red Velvet.

---

Thanks for all your questions! And thank you especially for the balanced and nuanced discussion earlier this week in the Buffy Sainte-Marie thread. It is exactly what we were hoping for when we started this community and we are so grateful that you’ve come here with that energy.

Keep squawking, keep gossiping,

Lainey and Sarah