Gossip turned career, who reads all those emails, most read stories, why fawn over Gwyneth, behind the scenes of LG, and what to do with a magic wand...
I actually liked all the Gwyneth swooning, because I thought it was an honest declaration of love at the time and I respect that, LOL.
That's actually what I've always really appreciated about this site: it presents opinions that I might not have ever considered. It's analytical without being exploitative. And I feel the same way about The Squawk. Even the posts and comments I disagree with make me contemplative, and I still find their tone respectful - and I can't say that about some major "news" outlets.
Like, this is a more trivial example, but I wouldn't put my cats in some of the outfits that Lainey has loved. But I also look forward to her explaining why they appeal to her. And I've also loved a lot of stuff that she's deemed boring as hell. And sometimes we go apeshit over the same thing and the same people and have no notes and nothing to nitpick (hi, Zendaya). But I also now have a ritual of scanning outfits on awards/gala nights and predicting which ones she's going to write about the next day - which ones will be the most lauded and detested on LG. And I have to say that I've gotten REALLY good at this little game over the past few years. But the way she *describes* these fits is pleasurable to me, too. I like reading about fashion the way the same way I enjoy reading about food: I inhale all the little details, even if it's not personally palatable to me.
And I appreciate the continued vociferous defense of fashion as a legit art form worthy of discussion on the red carpet and elsewhere, because it IS!
Anyway, thanks for sharing what goes on with the machinery/brainpower of LG and how you guys operate. You made a lot of nerds happy with this particular mailbox.
This is a great point Erin and something I never got to in my answer to the "who reads us" question. Over the years we've "lost" a lot of people along the way who couldn't or didn't want to handle reading views that countered their own. I'm thinking of the Trump presidency years and the post-George Floyd period. We have a lot of readers who you could even say are "minivan majority", but stayed because though some might disagree with our mostly liberal views, they wanted to hear other viewpoints and weren't offended at the suggestion of something like "white privilege". And I find this in our forums as well. We seem to have a group of readers here who can disagree but don't hate each other for their viewpoints and it stays pretty constructive. Kudos to you guys for maintaining that openness.
I actually LOVE that you guys get political, and I'm not one who'll ever whine about it. LG can range from frivolous fun to deadly serious, and I like that range. I agree with anyone who's stated here and elsewhere that the stakes are too dire right now to be quiet and apolitical, and anyone who can articulate the danger of another Trump presidency to a wide audience should go ahead and take advantage of that platform. So thank you for that.
And I appreciate it when you guys speak out about issues affecting Canada, too - particularly when they involve indigenous people. I've read about plenty of topics on LG that most American media outlets have little interest in covering.
I sincerely loved Gwyneth in the 90s. She was my favorite actress of that era. But some switch flipped in the aughts. She lost me when she started shilling snake oil.
I rewatched The Talented Mr. Ripley not too long ago, and was struck by two observations:
1) Anthony Minghella REALLY knows how to make exceptionally attractive people look even more gorgeous. Good lord.
2) I actually *really* miss Gwyneth as an actress. The woman really does have a bunch of talent, and that's easy to forget since she's all but abandoned that aspect of her career and has become this weird UES caricature.
I think the last GP film I went to a theater to see was Sylvia. And that was like TWENTY years ago! It wasn't...great, but I do remember being excited to see what Gwyneth would do with the role. I remember that I wasn't dismayed when they cast her, and Sylvia Plath is an entity that I care deeply, deeply, deeply about.
P.S. Speaking of movies, I really loved your Beetlejuice Beetlejuice review this week, and just wanted to tell you that.
Well, you turned that annoyance into pure poetry. :-)
For reals, though - it was like New Yorker-level writing on your part. I love it when a descriptive sentence makes my wordnerd head spin, and you're definitely capable of that. It was just a total pleasure to read.
I love Lainey's Gwyneth love. I also appreciate how ridiculous she is, and I don't understand why it's not understood. A subdued Blair Waldorf in the wild? Yes. Who listens to Blair that has any sense? You don't. No one is listening to Gwyneth that has sense. She's surprised if you're listening. I'm surprised people think she knows what she's talking about, but not surprised she's getting paid to say gibberish. She's JR Ewing. Purely for entertainment. People love to attach themselves to a rich person and give over their reasonableness. Her flight attendant movie is my favorite Gwyneth.
When I was about three or so, I had a t-shirt that said "I Shot JR" in sparkly lettering. So thanks for reminding me that I had cool parents at some point.
As for the flight attendant movie, I believe that's the one she once lovingly refers to as "A View From My Ass." Candice Bergen is in that movie. I'd pay a lot of cash I don't have to know what Candy thought about Gwyn.
That movie was some of her best work. She took her silly side and flung it on the screen. I was in appreciation. It's a comfort watch. Christina Applegate is always good. Candace Bergen is always up for nonsense and I appreciate her however she arrives.
JR Ewing is known internationally. Your parents has their fingers on the pulse. Trying to understand what someone is trying to say when W is not in their pronunciation wheelhouse is a feat. That character was an icon. Spelling made that city iconic as well.
i always underestimate how much works goes into a site like laineygossip, and how much work it must take to have kept it running for all these years. it’s great to get some insights into that and thanks for all your hard work. i’m sure i can speak for a lot us when i say that we really appreciate it!
as for the most controversial part of this mailbag—i too have never understood the obsession with beyonce nor understood what she has ever done to warrant it in the first place. i like her music fine and i really love how she’s become like a kind of archivist with how she showcases the overlooked contributions of Black musical and cultural artists, but it’s not like there’s any of the “parasocial” stuff fans can latch onto to create and fuel the obsession.
but the thing i truly do not understand is how anyone can believe at this point in time that beyonce has a bigger cultural impact than taylor swift. every time i read the “beyonce, queen of culture” phrase, i roll my eyes a bit. she is not moving the needle anymore outside of her fanbase, and she doesn’t seem to want to do that anymore either, and that’s fine! taylor clearly does and has courted the entire world, and her base and impact have grown to a level we haven’t seen in decades. the eras tour’s impact alone hasn’t been seen in decades
I don’t think it’s correct to say Beyoncé isn’t moving the needle outside of her fan base - you can see the spike in support and interest for artists that she features and know that she has an impact. Taylor is certainly more “outside” than Beyoncé is, but I think other artists are chasing BOTH of their success because they’re both hugely influential.
Do you think that writers (Olivia Rodrigo) are chasing Taylor, while Beyonce is basically an ideal? Victoria Monet is giving Beyonce vibes, but I think her writing would be closer to Taylor. A good catchy line perfectly placed in a song. I put that on my maamaaaa.
The entire what sort of world? Many people enjoy Taylor. People enjoy Taylor that find her annoying as a person. She's talented. She's still not creatively doing anything similar to Beyonce and that's not really important. One has a big voice and her microphone is ONNNN. Taylor can play instruments, and has curated a public persona that parents WANT their kids to see and enjoy. There's not really a video drop that compares to Beyonce. An album drop with visuals? People are still talking about that album. Taylor sells her parasocial relationship with her fans in her songs that many relate to. Beyonce made Black is King. That was AFTER Lemonade. She's always pushing and has not been given recognition in comparison to Taylor who's constantly given awards for "not the same level of visible output". Is she Houston Jesus? No. She can't make a movie called Miss Americana even if all her songs have been pop for years. Taylor and Beyonce share a stratosphere of fame. Only one of them is relegated to one category no matter if she does all the right things. They're not the same. Taylor has more or less gone in Beyonce's footsteps in the pop lane, but they do very different things. It's like saying the Postoffice Alone rapper is bigger than Jay-Z (I shudder because eventually someone will vomit this out and it will be the worst day ever). What was the obstacle in place to start that comparison? Taylor's obstacle was...her voice wasn't great and the music business is hard even if you're from a monied family with connections and have blonde hair and an innocent surprised face for every show. She has done so much with a lot and less in some areas. Beyonce has defied odds. Defying odds connects with the global majority. She can dance hard AND sing with a live microphone. Creatively, she's superior even if you don't like what she comes up with. I rock with Beyonce for TX reasons and mostly TX reasons because there's something about us that makes us US in the ways we US. A Black Texan? I'm even more on board. She has done twice as much to get less of the awards in comparison to Taylor. Her output is spectacular. She's bringing people with her and does it all without actually talking. She paid her dues and talked long ago. That's enough of that. Beyonce is probably more on Madonna's level of impact (even if Cyndi Lauper had the voice). She's constantly morphing herself into herself (riff of Nikki Giovanni) and emerging MORE. They truly are unrelated in creativity and impact. Taylor has a pen that keeps her audience engaged. Beyonce's pen is not on Taylor's level. One is trail blazer with a big voice. The other has a very good pen with a good enough voice. If your description of the world is where Taylor is creatively on the same level as B? I am not sure we're discussing the same world. Definitely not the global majority. The global majority ROCKS with Beyonce hard. They both have an effect, but even their names are said differently. Beyonce, at this point, is a verb....an aura. She's famous people's ideal of IT. A politician's favorite. She is an anthem. A name used as encouragement. It's unrelated to Taylor. Taylor is not competing with Beyonce creatively. Taylor is doing her own thing, and it's very good work. Just not the same. If Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Diana Ross and Madonna were tossed into a science fiction box....it would create Beyonce. She has no peers in her lane of work. Let Taylor be whatever Taylor is. I don't think she is competing with Beyonce. It would be pointless in the creative space. She's unmatched.
"Beyonce has defied odds. Defying odds connects with the global majority. She can dance hard AND sing with a live microphone. Creatively, she's superior even if you don't like what she comes up with."
A Swiftie thought Black is King was somehow about Beyonce wanting a monarchy and I was so confused that someone that can draw Taylor's fingerprints (sarcasm) couldn't understand imagery and context and any of the literature words that fit better. Then I realized that as much as someone is invested in their fav, they're only pedestrian level interested in examining a different artistic expression. The same person dismissively described Snoop and Shaq as selling anything and everything as IF Shaq hasn't been with the General for decades. Like, run your words wild when you understand what you're talking about. Then, I realized that Beyonce talking could solve this…but actually it couldn't because it feels deliberate (to me). However, there's an article that I found by Brooke Obie from that time of Black Is King dropping that helps those who took the title literally to come a little bit closer to what others understood because it was made in our language, so to speak.
i didn’t compare them creatively bc i think that’s a pointless endeavor as they are, and have always been, extremely different artists who are, and always have been, doing extremely different things with their careers.
my point was that taylor is literally the most famous person on the planet, and is one of the very few monocultural touchstones we have…and beyonce is not at this point in time and also does not seem to want to be. and bc of this, does not have the level of cultural impact taylor currently possesses in that literally every single thing she does is talked about, analyzed, and discussed to death.
and again, im not talking about impact in an artistic sense, but simply a mainstream cultural sense at this current moment in time.
okay i think the issue here is we might be using the word “culture” to mean different things? i’m just using it as a stand in for like who/what is being talked about at the office watercooler, your friend’s wedding, your grandma’s funeral, etc.
to use a different example so maybe i can make my point clearer: game of thrones was that cultural touchstone topic for however many years. that’s taylor right now and i think that’s a pretty objective fact.
im not talking about the quality or artistry of game of thrones, im just talking about how it permeated every niche community so that everyone and their mother was talking about it regardless of whether or not they actually watched it/cared about it. that’s taylor right now. that’s the impact im talking about, not artistry/creativity/whatever
Brilliant mailbag, BTS is completely my thing. Speaking of which, I’ve been reevaluating all my subscriptions this year and *may* have been a little trigger happy in subscribing/unsubscribing on LG and other paid content. I’m always reviewing my subs as…shit is getting expensive everywhere you know?? Groceries, mortgages, property taxes, streaming platforms: It comes down to community for me, I notice i don’t “fit in” to a lot of online communities. Im not a fangirl of anything, Im more subdued in my interests. So I assumed LG access was to be “part of the community” in chatting and contributing to threads, something I don’t always have time for or don’t alway feel I have the right vibe for (I’d say its age but I don’t think it is). Now that you’ve rightfully made a reason for us to support you given the changing landscape, you’ve convinced at least one person to renew. Thanks to you both for holding down the fort for LG, always.
Oh that's interesting! I have also been reevaluating my subscriptions and interestingly, I decided *not* to renew my subscription to Big Salad (the CupofJo newsletter) because the community aspect was not there. I have loved CupofJo for over a decade but the comments and community...are already on the blog ! Whereas I not only love the newsletter content here at The Squawk but also the ability to chat if it appears that a British royal portrait was fudged and Kate was thrown under the bus for this (can you believe it was THIS year ??) !
I just want to say that online communities are real communities and I am so glad I joined this one. I think about the people here and their takes often (like, I was just wondering why we haven’t heard from Kathleen in a while (not N-B, but Squawker) and then I realized she’s in Venice! It is really a great place you’ve created here and a great site that is the catalyst for our conversations. The mailbags are always so interesting and this is no exception, thank you Emily and Jacek!
“Truthfully, what I wanted to do was work for Lainey. I had been a fan of the site, a daily reader since my Nettwerk days, and I knew through email that we had a good rapport. And then one day it fucking happened.”
It's kind of a cool story. I remember meeting Emily for the first time picking Lainey up on Georgia St in Vancouver after they had met and loosely discussed having her join.
“After all, no one wants to hear my thoughts on the Bennifer situation or whether or not Travis and Taylor will make it past Week 11 of this season on a regular basis.”
This was a real delight. I've been reading since about 2005 and feel my own evolution has been informed by and also kept pace with the site. I loved Perez Hilton and early LG but I wouldn't want to be judged by who that chapter Annie was. Also, I won a Shoppers gc through the site around 2006/7 and am just letting the Universe know I'm ready. Not a good guess-er though.
Lastly, cried in booktok over, " I’m her business partner but her husband first and I wanted to throw the gloves on."
@jacek I’m so sorry, I honestly was not referring to what you were thinking of when I mentioned “early days” though I can totally see why that gets your back up. What I meant more was the juggling of a paying job and the gossip work and at what point you as a married couple went “huh should we make the leap?” It seriously didn’t occur to me to mean the tone of those early blogs (not gonna lie, I sometimes I miss the snark, the funny/mean nicknames and the blinds), but I promise I wasn’t asking “what did you think of how Lainey wrote at the time?” What I meant was “what did you think of the fact that Lainey was doing this at the time?” But I completely understand why you read my question the way you did. Thank you for answering though, still completely insightful and also you could probably make $ on the side teaching other husbands how to be supportive life and business partners!
No worries at all and I totally understood what you were getting at. I just thought it was interesting how my brain went the old content route as well for the reasons I stated so I thought I would share both sides of that reaction.
"getting in the face of the people who orchestrated that outing and having little chat" ~ I want to ask about this and try to do it in a way that doesn't seem like poking...but more like trying to understand how you saw it. I'm always intrigued on how other cultures see certain things that some might see as "yeah, I'm not surprised". There's a meme where this Black man is making a side eye and slanting his mouth far more than Joey Potter because he's telegraphing that he's not at all shocked, but also not taking pleasure in it. You mentioned that you did the right thing in taking Lainey's lead in not speaking out and riding it out. Eating the food that was served. When it comes to being offensive in it's various forms, do you think changing course erases impact? I thought her friend was right, and thought it was such hard to take that advice. BUT, is the person who did what people on Twitter do to blame for digging up something that was actually offensive even if it was in the past? What would you say to this person? I'm mad because I feel like you should be over this? (rhetorical). Or, you hurt my wife and caused her to feel bad? I get it if it's the latter. I wouldn't want my family to hurt either. Yet, there's something in many families in Black culture (and others as well...regional, but definitely non white in my experience) that give the side eye Joey Potter mouth when your consequences come for you. They have your back, but they can't really decide that the impact of your harm doesn't get to be highlighted (if I was upset about someone saying something snarky to me...one of my parents would ask what I said?...umm excuse me, I'm upset, adults. Let's not discuss details. Hug me and buy me things. The adult knew that my mouth was full of smart retorts.). I know it's different any many white families, and it shows because sometimes they step out to tell the harmed that the harm is in the past and accounted for so it's time to move on. Maybe that works because it actually can be erased when you consider the pyramid of hierarchy. The lower on the pyramid, the more frank discussions get. Less coddling. There's coddling in forms, but reality bites real quick outside of whatever bubble your family created. Socioeconomic and region are also at play because I assume a poor white person is getting straight talk. Even more so if an immigrant that's not from a top fav Euro country. Since you gave your side, I just wanted to ask...if rambling is asking. It stuck with me that you were upset at the person who started the dragging. I assumed the person was sitting on it and past work offended them so they took the opportunity to hit back when the timing was right. I'm probably giving the person too much leeway. The theatre in someone getting their comeuppance is entertaining if we don't like the person. Twitter is a minefield for a grudges. It's great teamwork that you went with the plan and rode out the stress. I also found Lainey's handling of keeping the old posts and addressing them to be good. Yes, you can dig up old messy work...but you can also see where she addressed it..and kept addressing it. No hiding. Her friend did her a favor, and we should all have friends like that. I had no idea of her Twitter reckoning until she told us, so even though it felt so big and neverending...there's a swath of us that didn't have a clue. It really ended up being a Nas song (iykyk). I don't know enough of BTS to make it apply. Out of the ashes? Maybe not that either. Anyway, it was a good plan.
I totally love that “wife guy” is an accolade now. How far we have come. I’m of the age of Lainey and Jacek (don’t know yours, Emily) but there was a time not so long ago that men were not praised and celebrated for the scaffolding they provide to women. I am so glad we can celebrate it! I have a wife guy, too :) if y’all ever want to play golf, I will do that acronym that is sit in cart ball in pocket. Whatever that is. I’ll be the spouse support person :) Caddy?
Completely re-read this and comes out wrong - I am sure the squeakers now. Women are fine on their own, but men behind the scenes are not what we’re used to. We’re used to men getting the glory.
It's shifting. But it's still there too. For a few years and even still from some acquaintances I still feel this undercurrent of "you man, man should be provider!" type of thing and that she should be the number two. It bugged me a bit earlier in life that people didn't recognize how I contributed and that I didn't need to be the "CEO", but I've also never had a fragile ego so it never got to the point where I felt I should have pursued my own career path elsewhere just so I wouldn't be in her shadow. I think there are still a lot of men out there, and even women, who can't get past those traditional role views. But again, it's slowly shifting.
Jacek and Emily- this was great stuff! Thanks for showing us your work! And Jacek- thanks for being so real with your responses to those questions. It was a tough time for both of you. I think it was also necessary. Lainey was a phoenix. Your collective work since that time has been incredible. So mature, so insightful, and so professional. Keep it up. Your entire team are wonderful at what they do.
Thanks to Jacek and Emily for this, I am absolutely one of the nerds that always wondered about the back office operations of LG. So enlightening and makes me think I could possibly run my own business one day!
The way my eyebrows shot up on Jacek’s comments about Rihanna tho 😂
Emily, I'm not sure my subscription will auto-renew because I had to replace my credit card a few months back and it has different info on it now. If that's the case, will I get a notification in email to let me know I need to correct it?
Hi Andrea, I think you'll need to log into your profile and change you payment method there. I believe it re-tries but it will only do that same card so obviously it won't go through. If you have issues can you DM me or email me and I can go digging for you?
I’m monthly and I got some reminder emails saying please come back when my payment didn’t go through. I thought they were automatic - did a human send them!?! Anyways, I forget how I fixed it so I don’t know why I wrote this. It was the one payment I figured out how to reset on my own without someone calling me because I couldn’t deal with missing the Tuesday letter. I still haven’t even bothered to my new card to my ApplePay.
Thanks for the note Sarah. There are definitely automated tools that send these out. I’m not sure if other substackers actively email folks with failed payments but I also feel like some of them might be intentional so we don’t want to pry. But if you DO want to keep subscribing I think that’s fixed under your profile within Substack.
I would have signed off with "Squawk-a-doodle-do", but fine.
I actually liked all the Gwyneth swooning, because I thought it was an honest declaration of love at the time and I respect that, LOL.
That's actually what I've always really appreciated about this site: it presents opinions that I might not have ever considered. It's analytical without being exploitative. And I feel the same way about The Squawk. Even the posts and comments I disagree with make me contemplative, and I still find their tone respectful - and I can't say that about some major "news" outlets.
Like, this is a more trivial example, but I wouldn't put my cats in some of the outfits that Lainey has loved. But I also look forward to her explaining why they appeal to her. And I've also loved a lot of stuff that she's deemed boring as hell. And sometimes we go apeshit over the same thing and the same people and have no notes and nothing to nitpick (hi, Zendaya). But I also now have a ritual of scanning outfits on awards/gala nights and predicting which ones she's going to write about the next day - which ones will be the most lauded and detested on LG. And I have to say that I've gotten REALLY good at this little game over the past few years. But the way she *describes* these fits is pleasurable to me, too. I like reading about fashion the way the same way I enjoy reading about food: I inhale all the little details, even if it's not personally palatable to me.
And I appreciate the continued vociferous defense of fashion as a legit art form worthy of discussion on the red carpet and elsewhere, because it IS!
Anyway, thanks for sharing what goes on with the machinery/brainpower of LG and how you guys operate. You made a lot of nerds happy with this particular mailbox.
This is a great point Erin and something I never got to in my answer to the "who reads us" question. Over the years we've "lost" a lot of people along the way who couldn't or didn't want to handle reading views that countered their own. I'm thinking of the Trump presidency years and the post-George Floyd period. We have a lot of readers who you could even say are "minivan majority", but stayed because though some might disagree with our mostly liberal views, they wanted to hear other viewpoints and weren't offended at the suggestion of something like "white privilege". And I find this in our forums as well. We seem to have a group of readers here who can disagree but don't hate each other for their viewpoints and it stays pretty constructive. Kudos to you guys for maintaining that openness.
I actually LOVE that you guys get political, and I'm not one who'll ever whine about it. LG can range from frivolous fun to deadly serious, and I like that range. I agree with anyone who's stated here and elsewhere that the stakes are too dire right now to be quiet and apolitical, and anyone who can articulate the danger of another Trump presidency to a wide audience should go ahead and take advantage of that platform. So thank you for that.
And I appreciate it when you guys speak out about issues affecting Canada, too - particularly when they involve indigenous people. I've read about plenty of topics on LG that most American media outlets have little interest in covering.
I sincerely loved Gwyneth in the 90s. She was my favorite actress of that era. But some switch flipped in the aughts. She lost me when she started shilling snake oil.
I rewatched The Talented Mr. Ripley not too long ago, and was struck by two observations:
1) Anthony Minghella REALLY knows how to make exceptionally attractive people look even more gorgeous. Good lord.
2) I actually *really* miss Gwyneth as an actress. The woman really does have a bunch of talent, and that's easy to forget since she's all but abandoned that aspect of her career and has become this weird UES caricature.
I think the last GP film I went to a theater to see was Sylvia. And that was like TWENTY years ago! It wasn't...great, but I do remember being excited to see what Gwyneth would do with the role. I remember that I wasn't dismayed when they cast her, and Sylvia Plath is an entity that I care deeply, deeply, deeply about.
P.S. Speaking of movies, I really loved your Beetlejuice Beetlejuice review this week, and just wanted to tell you that.
Thanks! I was SUPER annoyed to have to deal with Beetlejuice this week!
Well, you turned that annoyance into pure poetry. :-)
For reals, though - it was like New Yorker-level writing on your part. I love it when a descriptive sentence makes my wordnerd head spin, and you're definitely capable of that. It was just a total pleasure to read.
I was actually going to make that my second chat confession lol. That for as insufferable as she is now, I really loved Gwyneth as an actress.
I love Lainey's Gwyneth love. I also appreciate how ridiculous she is, and I don't understand why it's not understood. A subdued Blair Waldorf in the wild? Yes. Who listens to Blair that has any sense? You don't. No one is listening to Gwyneth that has sense. She's surprised if you're listening. I'm surprised people think she knows what she's talking about, but not surprised she's getting paid to say gibberish. She's JR Ewing. Purely for entertainment. People love to attach themselves to a rich person and give over their reasonableness. Her flight attendant movie is my favorite Gwyneth.
JR EWING!!! Angela!!!!
When I was about three or so, I had a t-shirt that said "I Shot JR" in sparkly lettering. So thanks for reminding me that I had cool parents at some point.
As for the flight attendant movie, I believe that's the one she once lovingly refers to as "A View From My Ass." Candice Bergen is in that movie. I'd pay a lot of cash I don't have to know what Candy thought about Gwyn.
That movie was some of her best work. She took her silly side and flung it on the screen. I was in appreciation. It's a comfort watch. Christina Applegate is always good. Candace Bergen is always up for nonsense and I appreciate her however she arrives.
JR Ewing is known internationally. Your parents has their fingers on the pulse. Trying to understand what someone is trying to say when W is not in their pronunciation wheelhouse is a feat. That character was an icon. Spelling made that city iconic as well.
Erin, I play the fashion prediction game too! I watch for what I will like, and also for what how I think the LG team will react!
I always read the Gwyneth stuff as pure schadenfreude. Don’t know if it was intended that way, but that’s always the tone I heard.
Not to get too jade eggy and woo woo, but I read it as one Libra appreciating another Libra's obsession with aesthetics.
Casting my vote for a regular Jacek | Emily Mailbag! Loved it!
i always underestimate how much works goes into a site like laineygossip, and how much work it must take to have kept it running for all these years. it’s great to get some insights into that and thanks for all your hard work. i’m sure i can speak for a lot us when i say that we really appreciate it!
as for the most controversial part of this mailbag—i too have never understood the obsession with beyonce nor understood what she has ever done to warrant it in the first place. i like her music fine and i really love how she’s become like a kind of archivist with how she showcases the overlooked contributions of Black musical and cultural artists, but it’s not like there’s any of the “parasocial” stuff fans can latch onto to create and fuel the obsession.
but the thing i truly do not understand is how anyone can believe at this point in time that beyonce has a bigger cultural impact than taylor swift. every time i read the “beyonce, queen of culture” phrase, i roll my eyes a bit. she is not moving the needle anymore outside of her fanbase, and she doesn’t seem to want to do that anymore either, and that’s fine! taylor clearly does and has courted the entire world, and her base and impact have grown to a level we haven’t seen in decades. the eras tour’s impact alone hasn’t been seen in decades
now excuse me while i go run and hide 🫣
We need a safe house
Please save some space for me......
Yup! You can hide with Emily.
I don’t think it’s correct to say Beyoncé isn’t moving the needle outside of her fan base - you can see the spike in support and interest for artists that she features and know that she has an impact. Taylor is certainly more “outside” than Beyoncé is, but I think other artists are chasing BOTH of their success because they’re both hugely influential.
Do you think that writers (Olivia Rodrigo) are chasing Taylor, while Beyonce is basically an ideal? Victoria Monet is giving Beyonce vibes, but I think her writing would be closer to Taylor. A good catchy line perfectly placed in a song. I put that on my maamaaaa.
The entire what sort of world? Many people enjoy Taylor. People enjoy Taylor that find her annoying as a person. She's talented. She's still not creatively doing anything similar to Beyonce and that's not really important. One has a big voice and her microphone is ONNNN. Taylor can play instruments, and has curated a public persona that parents WANT their kids to see and enjoy. There's not really a video drop that compares to Beyonce. An album drop with visuals? People are still talking about that album. Taylor sells her parasocial relationship with her fans in her songs that many relate to. Beyonce made Black is King. That was AFTER Lemonade. She's always pushing and has not been given recognition in comparison to Taylor who's constantly given awards for "not the same level of visible output". Is she Houston Jesus? No. She can't make a movie called Miss Americana even if all her songs have been pop for years. Taylor and Beyonce share a stratosphere of fame. Only one of them is relegated to one category no matter if she does all the right things. They're not the same. Taylor has more or less gone in Beyonce's footsteps in the pop lane, but they do very different things. It's like saying the Postoffice Alone rapper is bigger than Jay-Z (I shudder because eventually someone will vomit this out and it will be the worst day ever). What was the obstacle in place to start that comparison? Taylor's obstacle was...her voice wasn't great and the music business is hard even if you're from a monied family with connections and have blonde hair and an innocent surprised face for every show. She has done so much with a lot and less in some areas. Beyonce has defied odds. Defying odds connects with the global majority. She can dance hard AND sing with a live microphone. Creatively, she's superior even if you don't like what she comes up with. I rock with Beyonce for TX reasons and mostly TX reasons because there's something about us that makes us US in the ways we US. A Black Texan? I'm even more on board. She has done twice as much to get less of the awards in comparison to Taylor. Her output is spectacular. She's bringing people with her and does it all without actually talking. She paid her dues and talked long ago. That's enough of that. Beyonce is probably more on Madonna's level of impact (even if Cyndi Lauper had the voice). She's constantly morphing herself into herself (riff of Nikki Giovanni) and emerging MORE. They truly are unrelated in creativity and impact. Taylor has a pen that keeps her audience engaged. Beyonce's pen is not on Taylor's level. One is trail blazer with a big voice. The other has a very good pen with a good enough voice. If your description of the world is where Taylor is creatively on the same level as B? I am not sure we're discussing the same world. Definitely not the global majority. The global majority ROCKS with Beyonce hard. They both have an effect, but even their names are said differently. Beyonce, at this point, is a verb....an aura. She's famous people's ideal of IT. A politician's favorite. She is an anthem. A name used as encouragement. It's unrelated to Taylor. Taylor is not competing with Beyonce creatively. Taylor is doing her own thing, and it's very good work. Just not the same. If Aretha Franklin, Tina Turner, Diana Ross and Madonna were tossed into a science fiction box....it would create Beyonce. She has no peers in her lane of work. Let Taylor be whatever Taylor is. I don't think she is competing with Beyonce. It would be pointless in the creative space. She's unmatched.
"Beyonce has defied odds. Defying odds connects with the global majority. She can dance hard AND sing with a live microphone. Creatively, she's superior even if you don't like what she comes up with."
Nodding my head in total agreement.
A Swiftie thought Black is King was somehow about Beyonce wanting a monarchy and I was so confused that someone that can draw Taylor's fingerprints (sarcasm) couldn't understand imagery and context and any of the literature words that fit better. Then I realized that as much as someone is invested in their fav, they're only pedestrian level interested in examining a different artistic expression. The same person dismissively described Snoop and Shaq as selling anything and everything as IF Shaq hasn't been with the General for decades. Like, run your words wild when you understand what you're talking about. Then, I realized that Beyonce talking could solve this…but actually it couldn't because it feels deliberate (to me). However, there's an article that I found by Brooke Obie from that time of Black Is King dropping that helps those who took the title literally to come a little bit closer to what others understood because it was made in our language, so to speak.
https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/music/a33564645/beyonce-black-is-king-symbolism-meaning-analysis-masculinity/
i didn’t compare them creatively bc i think that’s a pointless endeavor as they are, and have always been, extremely different artists who are, and always have been, doing extremely different things with their careers.
my point was that taylor is literally the most famous person on the planet, and is one of the very few monocultural touchstones we have…and beyonce is not at this point in time and also does not seem to want to be. and bc of this, does not have the level of cultural impact taylor currently possesses in that literally every single thing she does is talked about, analyzed, and discussed to death.
and again, im not talking about impact in an artistic sense, but simply a mainstream cultural sense at this current moment in time.
okay i think the issue here is we might be using the word “culture” to mean different things? i’m just using it as a stand in for like who/what is being talked about at the office watercooler, your friend’s wedding, your grandma’s funeral, etc.
to use a different example so maybe i can make my point clearer: game of thrones was that cultural touchstone topic for however many years. that’s taylor right now and i think that’s a pretty objective fact.
im not talking about the quality or artistry of game of thrones, im just talking about how it permeated every niche community so that everyone and their mother was talking about it regardless of whether or not they actually watched it/cared about it. that’s taylor right now. that’s the impact im talking about, not artistry/creativity/whatever
Ahhh, okay. Yes, now I understand what you're saying.
Brilliant mailbag, BTS is completely my thing. Speaking of which, I’ve been reevaluating all my subscriptions this year and *may* have been a little trigger happy in subscribing/unsubscribing on LG and other paid content. I’m always reviewing my subs as…shit is getting expensive everywhere you know?? Groceries, mortgages, property taxes, streaming platforms: It comes down to community for me, I notice i don’t “fit in” to a lot of online communities. Im not a fangirl of anything, Im more subdued in my interests. So I assumed LG access was to be “part of the community” in chatting and contributing to threads, something I don’t always have time for or don’t alway feel I have the right vibe for (I’d say its age but I don’t think it is). Now that you’ve rightfully made a reason for us to support you given the changing landscape, you’ve convinced at least one person to renew. Thanks to you both for holding down the fort for LG, always.
Thank you for your support, Myra!
Behind the scenes not Bangtan Boys. Though I love them too…comeback soon!!!
Oh that's interesting! I have also been reevaluating my subscriptions and interestingly, I decided *not* to renew my subscription to Big Salad (the CupofJo newsletter) because the community aspect was not there. I have loved CupofJo for over a decade but the comments and community...are already on the blog ! Whereas I not only love the newsletter content here at The Squawk but also the ability to chat if it appears that a British royal portrait was fudged and Kate was thrown under the bus for this (can you believe it was THIS year ??) !
I just want to say that online communities are real communities and I am so glad I joined this one. I think about the people here and their takes often (like, I was just wondering why we haven’t heard from Kathleen in a while (not N-B, but Squawker) and then I realized she’s in Venice! It is really a great place you’ve created here and a great site that is the catalyst for our conversations. The mailbags are always so interesting and this is no exception, thank you Emily and Jacek!
I love this.
“Truthfully, what I wanted to do was work for Lainey. I had been a fan of the site, a daily reader since my Nettwerk days, and I knew through email that we had a good rapport. And then one day it fucking happened.”
It's kind of a cool story. I remember meeting Emily for the first time picking Lainey up on Georgia St in Vancouver after they had met and loosely discussed having her join.
It was a dream come true and it still is!
“After all, no one wants to hear my thoughts on the Bennifer situation or whether or not Travis and Taylor will make it past Week 11 of this season on a regular basis.”
Sir, I dissent 😂
Why, that I'm wondering if they'll break up by then or that you actually DO want to hear my thoughts on it? hahaha.
Oh I 100% think you should be granted a day here and there to share your thoughts! Some sort of Jacek Takeover that goes beyond What Else? 😂
Mostly I would just love when Lainey comes for you for expressing your (obviously wrong) opinions.
Yes! Please!
This was a real delight. I've been reading since about 2005 and feel my own evolution has been informed by and also kept pace with the site. I loved Perez Hilton and early LG but I wouldn't want to be judged by who that chapter Annie was. Also, I won a Shoppers gc through the site around 2006/7 and am just letting the Universe know I'm ready. Not a good guess-er though.
Lastly, cried in booktok over, " I’m her business partner but her husband first and I wanted to throw the gloves on."
Thank you, LG team, you're killing it.
@jacek I’m so sorry, I honestly was not referring to what you were thinking of when I mentioned “early days” though I can totally see why that gets your back up. What I meant more was the juggling of a paying job and the gossip work and at what point you as a married couple went “huh should we make the leap?” It seriously didn’t occur to me to mean the tone of those early blogs (not gonna lie, I sometimes I miss the snark, the funny/mean nicknames and the blinds), but I promise I wasn’t asking “what did you think of how Lainey wrote at the time?” What I meant was “what did you think of the fact that Lainey was doing this at the time?” But I completely understand why you read my question the way you did. Thank you for answering though, still completely insightful and also you could probably make $ on the side teaching other husbands how to be supportive life and business partners!
No worries at all and I totally understood what you were getting at. I just thought it was interesting how my brain went the old content route as well for the reasons I stated so I thought I would share both sides of that reaction.
"getting in the face of the people who orchestrated that outing and having little chat" ~ I want to ask about this and try to do it in a way that doesn't seem like poking...but more like trying to understand how you saw it. I'm always intrigued on how other cultures see certain things that some might see as "yeah, I'm not surprised". There's a meme where this Black man is making a side eye and slanting his mouth far more than Joey Potter because he's telegraphing that he's not at all shocked, but also not taking pleasure in it. You mentioned that you did the right thing in taking Lainey's lead in not speaking out and riding it out. Eating the food that was served. When it comes to being offensive in it's various forms, do you think changing course erases impact? I thought her friend was right, and thought it was such hard to take that advice. BUT, is the person who did what people on Twitter do to blame for digging up something that was actually offensive even if it was in the past? What would you say to this person? I'm mad because I feel like you should be over this? (rhetorical). Or, you hurt my wife and caused her to feel bad? I get it if it's the latter. I wouldn't want my family to hurt either. Yet, there's something in many families in Black culture (and others as well...regional, but definitely non white in my experience) that give the side eye Joey Potter mouth when your consequences come for you. They have your back, but they can't really decide that the impact of your harm doesn't get to be highlighted (if I was upset about someone saying something snarky to me...one of my parents would ask what I said?...umm excuse me, I'm upset, adults. Let's not discuss details. Hug me and buy me things. The adult knew that my mouth was full of smart retorts.). I know it's different any many white families, and it shows because sometimes they step out to tell the harmed that the harm is in the past and accounted for so it's time to move on. Maybe that works because it actually can be erased when you consider the pyramid of hierarchy. The lower on the pyramid, the more frank discussions get. Less coddling. There's coddling in forms, but reality bites real quick outside of whatever bubble your family created. Socioeconomic and region are also at play because I assume a poor white person is getting straight talk. Even more so if an immigrant that's not from a top fav Euro country. Since you gave your side, I just wanted to ask...if rambling is asking. It stuck with me that you were upset at the person who started the dragging. I assumed the person was sitting on it and past work offended them so they took the opportunity to hit back when the timing was right. I'm probably giving the person too much leeway. The theatre in someone getting their comeuppance is entertaining if we don't like the person. Twitter is a minefield for a grudges. It's great teamwork that you went with the plan and rode out the stress. I also found Lainey's handling of keeping the old posts and addressing them to be good. Yes, you can dig up old messy work...but you can also see where she addressed it..and kept addressing it. No hiding. Her friend did her a favor, and we should all have friends like that. I had no idea of her Twitter reckoning until she told us, so even though it felt so big and neverending...there's a swath of us that didn't have a clue. It really ended up being a Nas song (iykyk). I don't know enough of BTS to make it apply. Out of the ashes? Maybe not that either. Anyway, it was a good plan.
Jacek - throwing his name into the FYC for wife guy of the year!! 🙌👏🏻👏🏻
They’re a great team and it’s a beautiful, inspirational thing to witness
I totally love that “wife guy” is an accolade now. How far we have come. I’m of the age of Lainey and Jacek (don’t know yours, Emily) but there was a time not so long ago that men were not praised and celebrated for the scaffolding they provide to women. I am so glad we can celebrate it! I have a wife guy, too :) if y’all ever want to play golf, I will do that acronym that is sit in cart ball in pocket. Whatever that is. I’ll be the spouse support person :) Caddy?
Completely re-read this and comes out wrong - I am sure the squeakers now. Women are fine on their own, but men behind the scenes are not what we’re used to. We’re used to men getting the glory.
It's shifting. But it's still there too. For a few years and even still from some acquaintances I still feel this undercurrent of "you man, man should be provider!" type of thing and that she should be the number two. It bugged me a bit earlier in life that people didn't recognize how I contributed and that I didn't need to be the "CEO", but I've also never had a fragile ego so it never got to the point where I felt I should have pursued my own career path elsewhere just so I wouldn't be in her shadow. I think there are still a lot of men out there, and even women, who can't get past those traditional role views. But again, it's slowly shifting.
I mean, work wife of the year!
Jacek and Emily- this was great stuff! Thanks for showing us your work! And Jacek- thanks for being so real with your responses to those questions. It was a tough time for both of you. I think it was also necessary. Lainey was a phoenix. Your collective work since that time has been incredible. So mature, so insightful, and so professional. Keep it up. Your entire team are wonderful at what they do.
Thanks to Jacek and Emily for this, I am absolutely one of the nerds that always wondered about the back office operations of LG. So enlightening and makes me think I could possibly run my own business one day!
The way my eyebrows shot up on Jacek’s comments about Rihanna tho 😂
Excellent mailbag !! No question in my mind that I will renew my subscription!
Enjoyed this a whole lot. And my subscription automatically renewed! Squawk-tastic.
🙏🙏🙏
Emily, I'm not sure my subscription will auto-renew because I had to replace my credit card a few months back and it has different info on it now. If that's the case, will I get a notification in email to let me know I need to correct it?
Hi Andrea, I think you'll need to log into your profile and change you payment method there. I believe it re-tries but it will only do that same card so obviously it won't go through. If you have issues can you DM me or email me and I can go digging for you?
I sure can. I'll work on it tomorrow and let you know if I have any issues. Thanks!
Great question! I’ll find out for you or have Jacek get back to you.
Thank you!
I’m monthly and I got some reminder emails saying please come back when my payment didn’t go through. I thought they were automatic - did a human send them!?! Anyways, I forget how I fixed it so I don’t know why I wrote this. It was the one payment I figured out how to reset on my own without someone calling me because I couldn’t deal with missing the Tuesday letter. I still haven’t even bothered to my new card to my ApplePay.
Thanks for the note Sarah. There are definitely automated tools that send these out. I’m not sure if other substackers actively email folks with failed payments but I also feel like some of them might be intentional so we don’t want to pry. But if you DO want to keep subscribing I think that’s fixed under your profile within Substack.
Just letting you know that I did manage to figure it out and it was a success!
Loved hearing from Jacek and Emily! Probably because I'm a nerd and have been reading Lainey Gossip since 2008 and always wondered how it was run.