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I think the problem with Beyoncé’s businesses continues to be that you have to hustle for a celeb brand to be successful. Selena and Rihanna are out here SELLING. Beyoncé wants to maintain an air of mystery and remove - that is not compatible with today’s market.

I think eventually she’ll have to decide if she wants to give it up and consistently put herself out there to make these brands work, or become a silent investor who builds & owns brands that don’t need her face on the marketing. But watching these various ventures launch and fade over the years just makes me cringe; it’s so at odds with her artistic image of exacting excellence.

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The celebrity hustle means you have to keep selling yourself. As a business owner, the service I provide includes a degree of that although it’s barely comparable. I hate putting my face on ads, even though it’s important in my industry. It can feel self-aggrandizing and requires more “image awareness” than I care to spend. I do what I can to minimize it for sure. I can’t imagine how draining and warping it is to do it over and over again for different ventures that aren’t necessarily your passion. I don’t begrudge Beyoncé for trying and largely succeeding. It’s just a life I would never want.

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In the age of social media I don't think celebrity brand owners can be silent investors anymore. You have to believe in the product or it just seems like a cash grab. The Victoria Beckham Breitling watch is a great example. She's never seen wearing that watch, yet her name is on it. It's not good enough for VB so why would anyone else want it? The celebrity has to be a walking and talking billboard for their product. Or at the very least, be seen wearing it. For hair products and makeup - no one knows you're wearing your brand unless you talk about it.

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I don't really pay attention to celebrity ventures unless they make big news for billion dollar sales/acquisitions etc., like Clooney's brand did. Or unless Lainey covers how well/badly they are doing. How/where did you learn that Beyonce's various ventures launched and faded over the years? (I only know that House of Dereon folded but that was so long ago)

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LOL, my friends and I are big fans so between them and Lainey I feel like I hear about her a lot? But I’m thinking about Dereon, that vegan meal kit, the lemon water, the perfume last summer….

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I remember the vegan meal kit but have no idea about the lemon water or the perfume. But how do you know they faded? Is it because you never hear about them anymore or because you read it somewhere?

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To give some British person context: Laura Kuenssberg is largely known in the UK for her perceived pro-Tory biases. She's been punished before for breaking the BBC's impartiality guidelines and is often referred to by other journalists as a prominent example of access journalism. When this story broke, "inadvertently" (complete with the quotes) started trending on Twitter, such is the scepticism around her being in any way impartial towards the Tories.

RE: Beyonce, I think it's really interesting how she's so keen to let the music speak for herself while still doing so much in terms of side-hustles, ad campaigns, etc. That's not to say that she should start shoving Cowboy Carter songs into the Cecred ads or anything, but usually celebs create businesses like this as brand extensions (see Ryan Reynolds sticking his gin in every movie he does.) A lot of female celebrities are usually seen as the faces of companies and not the brains behind them so I wonder if this is her way of re-centring herself as a bona fide magnate.

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I'd like to point out something people gloss over when discussing Elon Musk, or Donald Trump for that matter, and how they're "self-made". Both of these men inherited much of what got them started, and while Musk's family wasn't stinking rich, they were certainly considered wealthy, enough for their children to learn the wonders of wealth and covet it and try to attain more of it. Musk came of age as the dot.com phenomenon was taking off, and he took advantage of that. When you start from a monied place, you have a much easier chance of not just maintaining it, but adding to it with a certain amount of reckless abandon.

Donald Trump, on the other hand, came from obscene wealth, and he learned how to cheat people out of money from a master, his father. There's a reason Woody Guthrie wrote disparaging songs about "Old Man Trump." Trump has actually lost more money than he's ever earned, and his "wealth" is much more of a smoke and mirrors, paper tiger kind of thing. But at heart, he's still a slum lord, the guy who charges exorbitant rent for unlivable spaces, the guy who contracts for work from craftsmen and never pays them.

I look at both of these men, and others (like Robert Durst), and I see generational wealth at it's worst. It seems to me that in a family where the children are born into wealth, there will be at least one of them that becomes a master at abusing their privilege and then crowing it to the world. The other siblings may also be guilty of the worst sort of behavior with regards to those less fortunate, but they learn the valuable lesson of staying out of the spotlight and cloaking their worst behavior.

As someone who grew up poor and was raised by honest, hardworking people trying to do right not just by their children and families, but their neighbors, I find I have no respect for these kinds of rich people. I don't find acquiring wealth to be an awesome skill, but treating people with love and respect is something to be admired.

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Yeah I agree. Honestly, I have a big chip on my shoulder about people who have extreme wealth (like, 50M+). At some point, you aren't earning it through your own hard work, but you are reaping the benefits (multiplied) from others' hard work. Like, my husband works for a huge multinational company. The CEO makes like 50x more than he does, at least - and capitalism would say that is because that person is taking on all the risk and responsibility. But, who is more likely to get laid off without notice? Who is more likely to get a golden parachute if they do get laid off? Who is more likely to already have a nice pillow of wealth that they can rely on if the shit hits the fan? I just can't see how CEOs deserve like multi-million dollar salaries when their workers who create their wealth receive so, so much less. When it comes to celeb brands, I support some, and I am def guilty of buying things because of the celebrity endorsement effect. However, as the wealth gap increases and cost of living rises, it seems gross to continue to line the pockets of folks who already have more than enough. While it's admirable that Beyonce is creating generational wealth, and everyone should have the opportunity to do that, I just can't see our current capitalist system creating that opportunity for everyone, no matter how hard they work. By design, it doesn't, and the people at the top HAVE to have people below them in order to remain there. So - when it comes to celeb products, if they are good quality, I will buy them, but I side eye the storyline of 'enrichment' if the person being enriched is already...very enriched. I can see where this post is going in terms of reclaiming traditional spaces for Black people that have been co-opted by white people, and getting profit from that reclaiming and I support that in principle. At least with B's products you can see the thought behind them, she certainly isn't just slapping her name on some QVC random thing.

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These answers are all so thoughtful and interesting. Thank you. My understanding of the celebrity ecosystem is continually expanding thanks to Laineygossip and The Squawk.

Re: the high from performing, the hobby I devote the most time to is improv, and I used to perform weekly at a theater in NYC (harder to keep that up with small kids). Those sets were usually 16 minutes long, and in front of barely 80 people, and even from just that, it took me a while to come down after a show. So I can barely imagine what megastars feel when they’re experiencing a tidal wave of adulation from thousands of people. Sincerely, I no longer question why stars get addicted to taking things to help them calm down.

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Last night I read this piece https://asseenonbyochuko.substack.com/p/everybody-wants-to-be-beyonce-nobody which makes the argument that while everyone admires Beyonce, no one actually wants to be Beyonce because she doesn't appear to have fun. I don't know if this is true or not as I'm at best a very, very casual fan who admires Beyonce's work ethic probably more than I engage with her music, still I found it to be an interesting perspective why her product lines don't resonate more with her fans.

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this is the essay that started a conversation with a friend that caused me to ask the question for the mailbag!

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Wow! Cross newsletter pollination!

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Re farting: THANK YOU for bringing this up! It makes so much sense! I have gut issues and eating the proper mix of food types (not too much, certainly not too little) is key to keeping the ecosystem on track. If I only consumed meat and smoothies … good grief. Is it worth having the “ideal” skinny body type if a cloud of noxious fumes permanently surrounds you? It’s hard to enjoy life when you’re constantly bloated and suppressing (or releasing) farts. Never mind the fact that it’s an ever present concern during sex. I’ll choose more pounds over that life any day.

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Good lord I hadn't even thought about the sex part.

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What I wouldn't give for some mid-budget thrillers! My comfort (?) watches are Kiss the Girls, The Bone Collector, Runaway Jury, A Perfect Murder...I also assume any rising it girl from the 90s who faded a bit from the spotlight like Ashley and Mira was Weinsteined. Gretchen Mol is another one who comes to mind so I was glad to see her popping up in some prestige tv.

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My mother asked me today "what happened to normal movies?". I asked her to expand that so she answered "boy meets girl, family, cowboy", she's 80 so Westerns were a thing for a long time in her day. I took her to see Young Woman and the Sea and boy did Disney miss the boat not releasing that in theaters, I haven't heard cheering like that in a movie theater in a long time. People want these movies but they keep getting shunted directly to streaming where they disappear. Then again, my mother also made me take her to Deadpool And Wolverine so we are both part of the problem as well.

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OMG. We're twins! Every one of these are great, and I've watched all of them multiple times. Double Jeopardy also? Watched it last month. I so wish they would make these middle brow novels into films now, but they're pushing perfectly set up books into series, and I don't have the bandwidth to watch 9 eight episode stories, unless it's Daisy Jones (adored the book) or that Jennifer Garner The Last Thing something something. Now I will adjust my mundane life around anything Taylor Jenkins Reid writes!!

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Absolutely! And High Crimes, which I always confuse with Double Jeopardy 😆

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Oct 4·edited Oct 4

I adore Fiona Apple and have always wanted to see her live, but I've also read how much she dreads/hates touring, so part of me would also feel bad about purchasing a ticket if the opportunity arose. Like...I know I'd be putting money in her pocket, and I'm very stoked to do that, but would I also be contributing to the downfall of her mental health? What does a roomful of scrutinizing eyes do to a person with palpable anxiety, even if they're trained to perform? What if someone throws a phone or a grapefruit or something at her? Ultimately, I guess I'd rather have her in my earbuds while I go for a walk, though the experience of being in an auditorium with a singer you revere is a pretty special one.

I'm actually wondering how imperative touring is for a musician's career these days. I think that it was paramount for artists to hop around the world to play for audiences decades ago, but maybe there's a much closer bridge between musicians and their fans in 2024, and it's not nearly as necessary. I do think some people must thrive on an audience's energy. Taylor Swift absolutely LOVES it, lives for it, and you can tell. With other artists, not so much. And I don't blame them.

Honestly, I'm one of those Olds who typically leaves concerts quaking with disgust because of all the loudass chit-chatting and view-destroying phones held aloft. I think the last concert I attended was a Neko Case show, and she's not one to let an audience act like a bunch of assholes.

And I'm just going to say it: I'm stuck on the flatulence. Thank you, Lainey, for devoting multiple descriptive paragraphs to this topic. Perhaps Will Smith holds in his more inconsequential toots until they blossom and bellow into the kind of farts that shock those in their vicinity with their velocity. Actors are people who are presumably around other people a lot during their workday, so they probably don't get many chances to slip around a corner and surreptitiously release the hounds, so to speak.

Ask a group of vegetarians, and I think you'll find that we're just as skilled at blowing out a room as any meat-eating action star dude. I wonder if it also has to do with fiber, as opposed to just protein? Fruits and veggies can really make a gal gassy to the extreme.

But really, I just want Natalie Portman to chime in.

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I do think for a lot of artists that aren't Taylor or Beyonce they do have to tour because streaming (which is how most people get their music today) barely makes them any money. The general thing I've heard from industry types is pre streaming all your money as an artist came from album sales, now post streaming it all comes from tours.

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Everybody Farts (given to me as a bridesmaid gift) that said vegetarian diet = volume, meat eaters = stink. Should we question the elephant?

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Damn, it’s The Gas We Pass, not Everybody Farts. Guess I need to go read it again.

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They didn't have to pay RDJ! There's like hundreds of actors that could use Marvel money. Bringing back RDJ is just 🤯 even if it makes sense in some multiverse bullsh*t. I will never be not mad at this casting decision- sorry, rant over 🤪

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I'm sure he'll give a good performance. It's just so unimaginative.

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I would hope he’d be good at it. He’s been performing a version of himself his entire career. His role in Oppenheimer is the closest he came to shedding his natural verbal cadence, mannerisms, and general aloofness. But there is virtually no distinguishing him from his characters, and I don’t think his Marvel fans care for him to “branch out”, so this should be yet another cake walk.

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I think it's so weird when people criticize Beyoncé for her business ventures and praise Taylor Swift for being successful solely based on her music. Taylor has figured out how to sell the shit out of her music, that's why she's so successful. The parasocial relationship is the product, but this is still capitalism. What's the difference?

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Yeah, the music industry is still selling a product for consumers to buy. Being a fan of both Swift and Beyonce I can see that they have both mastered the system in their own ways. I rub up against my anti-capitalist feelings (see my comment above) and my admiration of them as a fan.

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Some of my most vivid memories were about farts.

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Fart humour is the best humour.

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Yes to a weekend chat thread! Jacek or Emily could open it on Friday evening right before quittin’ time so as not to have to wake up early on Saturday to get it started 🤓

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Have you seen the stuff re Sabrina Carpenter ripping off Jeremy Lewis (the artist) in her tour merch design? Interesting that she would take one accusation of phony (lip syncing) so petty-and-professional but also not respect artistry in it's other forms... Love to hear your thoughts on this!!!

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My gosh, you mentioned so many female artists I completely neglected to think about! Thank you for your thoughtful responses as always. Touring is work at the end of the day, and not everyone is made for every type of work.

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Re: Beyoncé brand lack of success: someone on Substack (I’m sorry, I should have subscribed to you) had a great analysis. She argued that brand reps should be aspirational and relatable and that basically B is not relatable because she’s too mysterious and withholding (bad paraphrase).

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Yes! This is the post

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Sorry to put this here but somehow the app is not letting me join the daily chats anymore. Very sad. That's the only way I engage on Substack so I'm hoping the powers that be (Jacek?) can look into it? Thank you and love your work always!

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